Manitoba Marathon

[Portentous]

http://www.manitobamarathon.mb.ca/

I was in Winnipeg for a friends wedding which coincided with this years Manitoba Marathon. Sticking with my philosophy of I don't fly anyhwhere without getting a medal, I registered for the half-marathon.

Getting to the start: It was highly recommended to park and take shuttle buses from the start. I was directed to a Safeway on ______ st. (Don't remember). In anycase, I found Safeway, and saw a bunch of runners waiting around. Figured this must be the place, especially when I confirmed that these guys were locals and were running the race. Took 20 minutes and a good 50 misplaced runners until we realized this was the wrong Safeway! Drove down a little further and discovered huge lines and a couple of buses. This must be the place. The problem was that the buses were taking everyone on a first come basis. Meaning that many 5k'ers who start 30 minutes after the marathon and half were getting on the buses with family and spectators. We were there 45 minutes before race time (and only a 5 minute drive away), but Many of us got to the start 10 minutes late. And there was still a lineup after my bus left. GRADE: F

The Course: Despite the early hour (7:00 or 8 am start if I remember correctly), it was warm at the start, and was soon to reach the boiling point. The course was well marked with volunteers stationed at the turn points, which I needed to catch up to everyone else. I don't know the area or Winnipeg at all, but we started at the university, ran on some highways and through a couple of neighborhoods. Decent spectator support, and lots of supportive honking (not the annoyed honking you get in Toronto). My only sore point was with the water stations. Compared with every other race I've done, this was the saddest crowd support I've ever witnessed. The early stations were a reported 4.4k apart, and appeared to be much longer in reality. Moreover, this was at the start when hydrating yourself is the most important. It was reaching 40 c, and we needed to drink. When we were treated to a water stop, the water we received was served through garden hoses into old looking garbage cans. That can't be sanitary. But beggars can't be choosers. I even saw one water station that was apparently set up exclusively for relay runners before they started. But it was far off course, and I was well past the station when I caught a glimpse. By the end of the race the last few miles of roadway was littered with the dehydrated bodies of runners who didn't even have the strength to stand anymore. Granted it was unusually hot that day, but I blame the lack of water on the course as the culprit. Grade: F, but a C+ if they improved the water stations

Finish Line: Stadium finish's perk up the deadest of legs. That was really nice, lots of crowd support here. The finish line was televised on cable, which is a great perk. After the finish line, you're stuck in a big herd with other runners where you are given your medal, a water, a bagel and fruit. 50m later you are out on the field, but no more freebies or food. So, the lack of love there was definitely disapointing. It was sufficient, but can't compare to most fun runs even in the food department. It didn't bother me that much though, so I won't penalize it: Grade: B+

Overall: Good crowd support. One family set up a beer station on their yard near the 17k mark, which was great. I would like to add that their were sponges and a couple of stations were giving out Ice, which I gladly threw into my hat to cool down. That was a well needed boost. The most impressive world class part of the event was the next day, when The Winnipeg paper had an entire section devoted to the marathon, with pictures, stories, and everyones times. There was a guy in a santa clause outfit running the course (hope he had his own water!). Nothing special about the course, but I liked it. The only downsides were due to poor organzation or lack of volunteer suport. If they had water & Gatorade every 2 miles, and the water wasn't served from the trash it would be a great race. As it stands I give it a Grade of C-

[dwayne_runs_far]

http://www.manitobamarathon.mb.ca/

The stations were a good 6k apart at the start when hydrating yourself is the most important. It was reaching 40 c, and we needed to drink. When we were treated to a water stop, the water we received was served through garden hoses into old looking garbage cans. That can't be sanitary. Grade: F, but a C+ if they improved the water stations

I can't comment on the park & ride, as I have always just driven right to the campus and parked. That meant getting there before 6 am though.

Just some comments for the record:
the garbage pails are for the sponges used to douse yourself with cold water. Each sponge is only used once per year, and are replaced and sanitized between races. The drinking water does not come from garden hoses. All bottled 'culligan' style, although I can't recall who the water supplier/sponsor is.

Also, there are I belive 19 water stations on the the full route, so there are much closer than 6k apart.

I can't comment on the relay only water, but I do know that some teams go all out and have mini-buffets set up for their teams at the exchange areas. This past year I was marshalling and one group of fans had a complete breakfast table set up on the lawn for all the friends that came to cheer this one woman's hubbie.

I have ran the MB twice in 2003 & 2004 and really can't agree with most of this report. Although there are many things that could be done to make the event better, I think the posting of completely wrong information doesn't serve any purpose.

Dwayne

[Portentous]

EDITED: Instead of attacking my character, why don't you write your own review, discussing the parts that you liked so much. As, I said there were great aspects of the race, and that way when people look up reviews they will see my highly negative review against others who had a much better time.

Ray, I was thinking of you and the T.O. Marathon right after I submitted that post. I was just too pissy at the time. (If you missed it, I wrote some heated comments, which I decided had to go, and am starting over)

In any case, I'm extremely confident that the water was coming from hoses and garbage cans. I hope I'm wrong, but that's what it looked like. In this years event there was no sign of any bottled water.

The water stations were coming every mile at the end, but by then it was too late. They were over 30 minutes apart when we needed them the most. This was a summer race (ok 2 days before), and they should have plenty of water. COnsidering that the average marathon has them at least every 2 miles for cool spring and fall dates, there should have been more.

Dwayne, I'm sorry I didn't like your local race, but that's how it appeared to an out of towner who has run halfs in 4 provinces to date. It was my own worst experience, and thats why I ranked it so poorly. On top of that, I had the misfortune of passing right next to a dead runner in last years Toronto Marathon, the fact that I saw so many people down on the ground in terrible pain made me sick. It looked like they were hit with the plague. It was extremely unnerving, and I blame it on the lack of fluids for a June race.

[RayMan]

Heated debate on a race report? Surely our opinions can differ without getting so worked up....

The Toronto 1/2 has been soundly thrashed by more than a few maniacs, but I posted that I enjoyed crowd support etc and had a great time...no one took offense, people can read and judge on their own, and we all get air our opinions.

Breathe deeply gentlemen and consider editing your posts to keep this forum informative and relaxed....

<tosses 2 pennies into the cup>

[Prairiekid]

I can't attest to where the water came from, but I did find it tasted a bit funny this year. Sort of bleach-y.

Not to stir the pot even more, but before the race this year, I did a detailed analysis of the distance between aid stations, in order to plan my race. According to my calculations, the first aid station was at 3.5km from the start - a bit long. The next was at 8.2km, which is another long stretch. The relay station followed at 9.8km. After that, the half and full routes split apart so my info won't match kzod's half-marathon experience.

I agree with parts of both posts - like Dwayne, I can't comment on the Park 'n' Ride experience, but they did have to delay the start this year, and I think it was because buses were still arriving.

In comparison with the finish at the Queen City Marathon (my only other large race experience), I agree that the stadium finish is nice, but I just don't "feel the love" at the MM like at the QCM. I think part of this is because the QCM allows relay teams to re-form just before the finish and cross the line together. This makes it a much more festive and celebratory event, even if you're not on a relay team. In contrast, the MM has strict rules about allowing ONLY the last relay runner to cross. (From the website: "Remember that only the last runner on the Relay Team can cross the Finish Line. Any other team members crossing the Finish Line will disqualify the team."). Also, there's less separation between runners and spectators at QCM start/finish area; it's more like a big party.

My biggest complaint with the Manitoba Marathon is that it feels like the full marathoners are sort of an afterthought. There are so many more half-marathoners and relay runners that as a full marathoner, you're definitely in the minority (QCM caps the number of relay teams, but I'm not sure that's a great idea either). This year there were 11,174 half marathoners, relay runners, super-runners and walkers in total , as opposed to 907 full marathoners, so I guess maybe they just know their "market", and that's who they play to.

- Pam

[RayMan]

All right Kzod! I know from meeting you how much you love racing and care about sharing your experiences and advice (for the record, Kzod talked me through the first 5K of my first ever 10K race, so I am biased about this man's race lore). Nothing wrong with bashing an event if that's how you feel - and you showed great editing skill in fixing your post.

Kudos to you, brother.

[dwayne_runs_far]

EDITED: Instead of attacking my character, why don't you write your own review, discussing the parts that you liked so much. As, I said there were great aspects of the race, and that way when people look up reviews they will see my highly negative review against others who had a much better time.

Sorry if you feel your character was attacked, what did I say that made any reference to you as an individual? I re-read my posting and I do not see anything that makes reference to your character; either good or bad. I simply pointed out what to me are factual errors; as I have done the event twice and know that the aid stations are closer than that.

From the official course map, the aid stations are at the following mile markers: 2, 4.75, 7, 8.5, 10.5, 11.5, 12.25, 14, 16, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 23.5 24.5.

Personally, as I indicated at the end of my post, I think there are lots of things that I could suggest to make the event better, and I have written a letter to the organizing committee to express those concerns.

My response was not because I have any biased love for the home town race (my real home town is too small to have a marathon). In fact, I too would concur with Pam's (prairiekid) comments that the marathoners are given a bit of a bum's rush compared to the half and fun run events.

I stand by my response as simply pointing out factual errors, not any character attacks, but as I mentioned, if I did unintentionally slay your character, please tell me how.

Dwayne

[Portentous]

Dwayne, I'm referring specifically to the half in my post (the event that I ran). Your own post shows that it was almost 3 miles from the 1st to 2nd aid stations, and the next one was at least 3 miles for the half marathoners. You could have them every block after that, it doesn't matter, it was too late.

There were no factual errors in my report. There was not enough water stations. The water came from hoses. Dozens of people collapsed due to issues relating to heat & dehydration.

[Agent Provocateur]

Down boys!

Here's my analisys of the event in question:

I found the water stations a little too far apart for my own personal liking, but that's why I carry my own water. And I don't care if the water came from a hose... it's clean water in Winnipeg. (Not that others can't have a different opinion - I just know that I have drank hose water before and never had a problem. It takes a pound of dirt to kill you )

I think there were people passing out all over the course primarily because of the extreme heat and humidity. For all of us local people, we were training in near freezing conditions and the week before the MM it was like running in a different country!

I also feel that many people run half marathons unprepared (I am guilty of that) and don't realize when they are pushing too hard (therefore passing out in extreme weather).

I used the Park and Ride. It was better than last year, but they still have a lot of work to do.

At the finish, I was too tired to wait in line for food so I got none. NONE! That part sucked.

But I'll do it again, for sure. I like my local race. I just wish they gave out technical T's rather than cotton.

-Natalie

[gamma j]

I have no other major events to compare to, but my own experience at the Manitoba Marathon was a positive one. Maybe it was the euphoria of completing my first 1/2 marathon there...

I didn't use the Park & Ride, so can't comment. It was very easy to get to parking inside the University property, having to leave early enough, that is.

I had no problem with the spacing of the water stations (I passed on the beer stop this time... tried it last year..oy!!), although it did appear that some were packing up when there were still many runners out on the course... I don't think this was very good if that was the case, considering the heat.

It is great running into the stadium for the finish. You can hear the music blaring as you approach & once my feet hit the track, it felt like I was flying... it was very emotional for me.

It was the congestion while waiting in line for the food that I didn't like. People were trying to barge through. The side I was on had several people blocking the entrance for safety personnel & stretchers... yes, there were a few of them.

The heat of the day definitely took its toll & it was very unnerving to run past people lying on the ground. The quick temperature change from even a week prior was very unexpected. Those temperatures have not been the norm in Manitoba at that time of the year.

Would I sign up again? You bet... 2006 will be my 1st attempt at the full marathon. It would be great if I had more opportunities to travel to other events, but alas, not for me... yet.

Just my comments based on my limited experience,
Jean

[Portentous]

Hey guys,
sorry if I got heated up, but I didn't respond well to being told that I posted 'completely wrong information', when I consider it all accurate. The water stops are ok if you are carrying a water belt. But, I was on vacation, and had forgotten mine. If you go in knowing that there isn'tr enough water stops, and carry some extra, you'll be fine. And for the record, I didn't care too much about the hose water. It just didn't look professional. In any case, I'll make an effort to keep things more cordial in the future.

Happy racing guys.

[dwayne_runs_far]

Hey guys,
sorry if I got heated up, but I didn't respond well to being told that I posted 'completely wrong information', when I consider it all accurate. The water stops are ok if you are carrying a water belt. But, I was on vacation, and had forgotten mine. If you go in knowing that there isn'tr enough water stops, and carry some extra, you'll be fine. And for the record, I didn't care too much about the hose water. It just didn't look professional. In any case, I'll make an effort to keep things more cordial in the future.

Happy racing guys.

The 'completely wrong information' came from your first post. Your claim of aid stations being 6km apart is simply not true, and it has nothing to do with your character. I would gather that on that day with the combination of the fluster from the bus delay, the unfamiliar course and the heat, confusion and issues of clouded perception reigned.

On the half course there are 7 aid stations, and to be 6 km apart that would mean the course was 42 km. Half's are 21.1 km. On average there is an aid station every 3km, or less than 2 miles

The math doesn't add up: Almost 3 miles is not 6 km; simple as that. 6km is just a smidge shy of 4 miles. 1 mile = 1.6 km; therefore 6 km = 3.75 miles, 3 miles = 4.8km...

On the half course, the aid stations are at miles 2, 4.75, 7, 9.75, 11, 11.75, 12.5 -- the greatest distance apart being 2.75 miles or 4.4 km.

As I said before, my only interest in the original post (and this one) is to provide correct info; not to destroy anyone's character; other's are much more capable of that.

Dwayne

[q]

Well I am glad you guys are getting along...

I must admit, it is easy to misread posts... but I didn't see anyone attacking anyone, of which I am glad.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed information. It does help people make choices of which races they are going to run in.

Thanks again for reeling it in yourselves, its make being a mod here easy.

[Portentous]

Well, it took a solid 30+ minutes between water stops at one point. Possibly, one of the stations wasn't at the right point which is why I estimated 6k. In any case, I've ran 5k's with 2 water stations. Going close to 3 miles in the summer heat (on the hottest day imaginable) is simply not acceptable. My distance may have been off, but my conclusion & concerns are valid, and should be relevant to potential runners.

I'll revise the distance in the original post to reflect this new information however. Thanks for tracking it down. I did look on their web site for it, but couldn't find the relevant info. I had seen those #'s before running however, but on the course it seemed off. The average distances are misleading since they were clustered so close together at the end.

[turd ferguson]

I ran manitoba for the first time this year (third marathon overall). I had a great 20 mile run and a really tough 6 mile walk.

Not long after the water station on Lyndale, I just couldn't run any more. I was on track for a sub-4 time (my goal) but the heat was just too much. After the first mile or two of walking, I didn't get passed at all. Just dozens of runners walking through St. Vital.

I don't know what else I could have done - I put in all the training in Calgary, but mostly in 10c weather and a lot in the rain.

I would love to run it again and teach that flat, fast course a lesson!

I hear that for next year they're contemplating a finish inside the new arena - that would be interesting, although the stadium finish was pretty neat. Is there any word on this?

Mike

[Portentous]

Mike, if that would've been your 1st sub 4, then you definitely pushed hard and had a great race. Summer marathons with full summer heat are not viable times to push your limits. Running the Toronto half in October, while everyone else was complaining about the bitter cold, just made me smile. I was thinking that this was near 'perfect'

[turd ferguson]

It wouldn't have been my first sub-4, but it was my first summer marathon. I knew to expect some trouble with the heat but had no idea.

Maybe I'll stick with my calgary advantage of running at altitude?

[runcherylrun]

Hey guys,
sorry if I got heated up, but I didn't respond well to being told that I posted 'completely wrong information', when I consider it all accurate. The water stops are ok if you are carrying a water belt. But, I was on vacation, and had forgotten mine. If you go in knowing that there isn'tr enough water stops, and carry some extra, you'll be fine. And for the record, I didn't care too much about the hose water. It just didn't look professional. In any case, I'll make an effort to keep things more cordial in the future.

Happy racing guys.

I didn't realize hose water in a garbage can wasn't the norm. I just finished running the Honolulu Marathon, I think it's one of the 3rd or 5th largest marathons out there, very professional & that's how all the water stations were. Worked great .

Cheryl