Treadmill use during training??

[turd ferguson]

Running on a track is different from road (easier because it's perfectly level and nicely cushioned) but you'd never see someone saying "Limit your training on a track because it's different from the road." Just adjust your pace expectations and workouts accordingly.

Actually, there's an article in Running Times this month that says exactly that.

[runjanerun]

As far as spinning... It doesn't even actually replicate road biking.

[Dark Side Comment]

It certainly does, and in many cases it can be made to be harder than riding outside.

[/Dark Side Comment]

I'm not a dark sider - maybe that is why I say that. I did spinning several years before I got a bike and I was shocked when I got on a bike and found out that it was so different to me. I find spinning kind of opposite of cycling on the roads -- you turn the knob to make it harder but in biking you are changing the gears to try and make it easier so you can go faster. I also don't stand up on my road bike (I would fall over I am sure) and I like to stand up on the spinning bike. As I said, this is from a strictly recreational rider point of view, so I probably don't know what I am talking about. We went out for our first ride today and I believe the spinning I have been doing lately did help some with my biking legs.

[CinC]

As far as spinning... It doesn't even actually replicate road biking.

[Dark Side Comment]

It certainly does, and in many cases it can be made to be harder than riding outside.

[/Dark Side Comment]

I'm not a dark sider - maybe that is why I say that. I did spinning several years before I got a bike and I was shocked when I got on a bike and found out that it was so different to me. I find spinning kind of opposite of cycling on the roads -- you turn the knob to make it harder but in biking you are changing the gears to try and make it easier so you can go faster. I also don't stand up on my road bike (I would fall over I am sure) and I like to stand up on the spinning bike. As I said, this is from a strictly recreational rider point of view, so I probably don't know what I am talking about. We went out for our first ride today and I believe the spinning I have been doing lately did help some with my biking legs.

I'm going to assume Mark is speaking of riding your bike on the trainer, and I agree with him 100%. spin bikes are not the same IMO!

there's a loose calcuation that 1hr on the trainer is equivalent to 1.25hrs on the road - which I think isn't that far off - you don't get to coast when you're on the trainer!

anyway - back to Treadmills - I'm neither pro or con - I guess I'm Switzerland on them - I'm glad I have access to one via my gym if I need it due to crappy weather/etc - but would rather run outside if I have the option.

[FishHog]

personally, I think TM's are a great option to keep me training. I guess if I lived in the perfect climate, where weather conditions never interferred with my runs, I was never rushed for time, and had any hills around me to run on, I wouldn't use it much. But as it is, my world ain't perfect and I use the TM a lot to get my training runs in. I prefer running outside for mental reasons, but I can give myself a hell of a workout on the TM, and as a bonus I catch up on some TV I'd miss otherwise, so it isn't all bad. I've run up to 31km on the TM, and while a little mentally taxing by the end, it was a good run and I think I was a better runner for doing it.

FishHog

[eme]

You can never replicate road running with a TM. It's good for obese people that want to shed some weight by doing cardio, before hitting the weight. If you a fit person, then it's just a waste of time, you are better off on the spinning bike, but some folks seem to hate that for some reason.

I know why, because it requires you to actually do some work I love spin classes

I disagree - I trained for a spring Half Marathon by doing about 90% of my runs in the winter on the treadmill (not sure if you have been posted to Winnipeg yet, but it gets freaking cold here). I consider myself fit and I ended up gettting a new PB by almost five minutes at my race.

Running on the TM can be very good for hitting certain paces and steady HR training/interval training. Spinning on the bike does not replace running (regarless if it is on the TM or road) - your leg muscles are used in very different ways.

[opcougar]

You can never replicate road running with a TM. It's good for obese people that want to shed some weight by doing cardio, before hitting the weight. If you a fit person, then it's just a waste of time, you are better off on the spinning bike, but some folks seem to hate that for some reason.

I know why, because it requires you to actually do some work I love spin classes

I disagree - I trained for a spring Half Marathon by doing about 90% of my runs in the winter on the treadmill (not sure if you have been posted to Winnipeg yet, but it gets freaking cold here). I consider myself fit and I ended up gettting a new PB by almost five minutes at my race.

Running on the TM can be very good for hitting certain paces and steady HR training/interval training. Spinning on the bike does not replace running (regarless if it is on the TM or road) - your leg muscles are used in very different ways.

What time are we talking here for the half marathon, and do you think if you had done the running outside, where you eventually did the half, your time would have been better?
I have been to winnipeg, and know it gets cold, hence the reason why they call it Winterpeg! It's up there with coldlake as places people don't like going to, and people normally get sent there for different reasons that am not going to get into

[opcougar]

You can never replicate road running with a TM. It's good for obese people that want to shed some weight by doing cardio, before hitting the weight. If you a fit person, then it's just a waste of time, you are better off on the spinning bike, but some folks seem to hate that for some reason.

I know why, because it requires you to actually do some work I love spin classes

If your treadmill workout isn't hard enough for you there is this really great feature......you can actually increase the speed.....and some of the newer ones even have an incline button.....

Hey....as well as being a long distance runner, I have always had speed also. I do the 100m in under 10.5, and that is no bull. No thanks to the threadmill for someone my age

[eme]

You can never replicate road running with a TM. It's good for obese people that want to shed some weight by doing cardio, before hitting the weight. If you a fit person, then it's just a waste of time, you are better off on the spinning bike, but some folks seem to hate that for some reason.

I know why, because it requires you to actually do some work I love spin classes

I disagree - I trained for a spring Half Marathon by doing about 90% of my runs in the winter on the treadmill (not sure if you have been posted to Winnipeg yet, but it gets freaking cold here). I consider myself fit and I ended up gettting a new PB by almost five minutes at my race.

Running on the TM can be very good for hitting certain paces and steady HR training/interval training. Spinning on the bike does not replace running (regarless if it is on the TM or road) - your leg muscles are used in very different ways.

What time are we talking here for the half marathon, and do you think if you had done the running outside, where you eventually did the half, your time would have been better?
I have been to winnipeg, and know it gets cold, hence the reason why they call it Winterpeg! It's up there with coldlake as places people don't like going to, and people normally get sent there for different reasons that am not going to get into

I do not think that I would have been any faster if I had trained exclusively outside - it is hard to get a decent tempo workout in when the ground is covered with ice. The treadmill is a useful tool in training, but not the only one.

As far as Winnipeg goes - your time will come. 1 Cdn Air Div is kind of like a mini NDHQ, it tends to suck people in at some point in their career .

Seriously, yes it does get cold here but it is a great place to live - it is home for me and I could not imagine living somewhere else (and yes, I have travelled extensively throughout North America and Europe).

[Jwolf]

Opcougar-- if you read back the previous posts I think you`ll see that lots of people disagree with you that treadmills are useless for fit people, regardless of speed.

[दिवंगत]

Opcougar-- if you read back the previous posts I think you`ll see that lots of people disagree with you that treadmills are useless for fit people, regardless of speed.

Yeah, but he runs the 100m in 10.5sec and that's no bull; so treadmills are probably useless for him.

[HCcD]

Opcougar-- if you read back the previous posts I think you`ll see that lots of people disagree with you that treadmills are useless for fit people, regardless of speed.

Yeah, but he runs the 100m in 10.5sec and that's no bull; so treadmills are probably useless for him.

Is that with or without a 150lb rucksack in barefeet ??

[HCcD]

You can never replicate road running with a TM. It's good for obese people that want to shed some weight by doing cardio, before hitting the weight. If you a fit person, then it's just a waste of time, you are better off on the spinning bike, but some folks seem to hate that for some reason.

I know why, because it requires you to actually do some work I love spin classes

I disagree - I trained for a spring Half Marathon by doing about 90% of my runs in the winter on the treadmill (not sure if you have been posted to Winnipeg yet, but it gets freaking cold here). I consider myself fit and I ended up gettting a new PB by almost five minutes at my race.

Running on the TM can be very good for hitting certain paces and steady HR training/interval training. Spinning on the bike does not replace running (regarless if it is on the TM or road) - your leg muscles are used in very different ways.

What time are we talking here for the half marathon, and do you think if you had done the running outside, where you eventually did the half, your time would have been better?
I have been to winnipeg, and know it gets cold, hence the reason why they call it Winterpeg! It's up there with coldlake as places people don't like going to, and people normally get sent there for different reasons that am not going to get into

Absolutely, a valid point ... For me, treadmill running gives me the opportunity to continue running all year despite the weather and conditions outside ... and, did help me with my marathon training in 2008 ... and, if I had trained more outside, had the conditions offered itself, I probably would have had a better time, assuming I did not die of frostbite, injured by slipping on the ice and/or hit by a crazy driver ...

[purdy65]

Have to chime in here again.

Interesting article

http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7 ... 0,00.html#

Also, there was a Ryan Hall article on treadmill speedwork, and if he's OK with it - so am I. Just wish I could find the article.

I became much faster this winter, and kept my miles up BECAUSE of the TM.

Awesome training tool!

I kind of do agree with taking the easy stuff outdoors when possible though!

Lisa

[rungeek]

I have used a treadmill at various times in the past for some of the same reasons that people have already listed: I could get a run in when my kids were younger and were in bed (since I couldn't leave the house) and also when the weather was poor and I wanted to do more than plod through the snow (although that can be fun too).
I used the treadmill extensively a number of years ago when I was getting ready to run Big Sur which takes place relatively early in the year for an Edmonton runner. I did a lot of my speed workout and hill workouts on the treadmill throughout the winter however, one thing I hadnt considered is that for hills on the treadmill there is no downhill portion of the run. When I got to Big Sur I did great on the uphills but when the next long downhill came everyone that I had passed on the way up blew by me on the way down. One friend even went so far as to compare our mile-splits to the course profile just so he could laugh at my total pathetic downhill skills. Specificity of training at its finest.
I also used it a bit for heat training for WS a few years ago when I would do the "overdress, crank the heat, run indoors and sweat" form of heat training. Again, better than nothing when its only single digits outside and you want to get ready for a hot race.
Its a tool like lots of other things; use it right and its great.

[opcougar]

I do not think that I would have been any faster if I had trained exclusively outside - it is hard to get a decent tempo workout in when the ground is covered with ice. The treadmill is a useful tool in training, but not the only one.

As far as Winnipeg goes - your time will come. 1 Cdn Air Div is kind of like a mini NDHQ, it tends to suck people in at some point in their career .

Seriously, yes it does get cold here but it is a great place to live - it is home for me and I could not imagine living somewhere else (and yes, I have travelled extensively throughout North America and Europe).

Perhaps...I guess we will never know. I have the luxury of rejecting posting even if it comes with promotion and where I end up based on my trade. Am sure you do to a point also.

Anyhoo....living in a place and travelling on vacation are two different things, the rose tinted frames or lack thereof gets in the way sometime. All I know is many people aren't queuing up to go to Winnipeg, and there must be a reason for that.

I am a big city lad, always would be, based on growing up in a city of 7 million people, and living in what is considered a city here ( population 500k-2.5 mil or more )

[dgrant]

Opcougar-- if you read back the previous posts I think you`ll see that lots of people disagree with you that treadmills are useless for fit people, regardless of speed.

Yeah, but he runs the 100m in 10.5sec and that's no bull; so treadmills are probably useless for him.

With that kind of speed he would have reached the finals of the men's 100m at the last Canadian Track and Field Championships. And he would shatter the 27 year old Canadian Masters (35+) record for the 100m...

Outstanding, no bull!

[Jo-Jo]

I also used it a bit for heat training for WS a few years ago when I would do the "overdress, crank the heat, run indoors and sweat" form of heat training. Again, better than nothing when its only single digits outside and you want to get ready for a hot race.
Its a tool like lots of other things; use it right and its great.

One of the guys I know from my gym has used TM training for Marathon des Sables...Martin totally "overdresses" and runs with a backpack on the TM.

I've done more TM running this past year than ever before for a variety of reasons. I agree...used right it can be a great alternative to outdoor running.
And an excellent alternative to lying on the couch drinking single malt scotch

[opcougar]

Opcougar-- if you read back the previous posts I think you`ll see that lots of people disagree with you that treadmills are useless for fit people, regardless of speed.

Yeah, but he runs the 100m in 10.5sec and that's no bull; so treadmills are probably useless for him.

With that kind of speed he would have reached the finals of the men's 100m at the last Canadian Track and Field Championships. And he would shatter the 27 year old Canadian Masters (35+) record for the 100m...

Outstanding, no bull!

Yes for a Canadian. How quick the Donovan and Bolt run the 100m? Surely you aren't saying only athletes that make a living from it, are able to run a 100m faster?

[gnu]

However, I do find it easier to run faster outside and easier to run slower on the TM, i.e. I always end up running my easy runs too fast when I run them outside, and I always find my tempo runs feel harder on the TM.

+1

[dgrant]

Yeah, but he runs the 100m in 10.5sec and that's no bull; so treadmills are probably useless for him.

With that kind of speed he would have reached the finals of the men's 100m at the last Canadian Track and Field Championships. And he would shatter the 27 year old Canadian Masters (35+) record for the 100m...

Outstanding, no bull!

Yes for a Canadian. How quick the Donovan and Bolt run the 100m? Surely you aren't saying only athletes that make a living from it, are able to run a 100m faster?

True enough, you're probably right. Of the 49 (out of 92) men who ran 10.5s or faster at last year's IAAF World Championships, surely some have vocations outside of running. I bet some are product spokesmen. Some might still be on university scholarships.

[rungeek]

I also used it a bit for heat training for WS a few years ago when I would do the "overdress, crank the heat, run indoors and sweat" form of heat training. Again, better than nothing when its only single digits outside and you want to get ready for a hot race.
Its a tool like lots of other things; use it right and its great.

One of the guys I know from my gym has used TM training for Marathon des Sables...Martin totally "overdresses" and runs with a backpack on the TM.

I've done more TM running this past year than ever before for a variety of reasons. I agree...used right it can be a great alternative to outdoor running.
And an excellent alternative to lying on the couch drinking single malt scotch

Sorry but for me ANYTHING is an excellent alternative to drinking scotch; I've just never acquired the taste.
Now, if you have a 40 year old port lying around ....I'm there.

sorry:

[rungeek]

I also used it a bit for heat training for WS a few years ago when I would do the "overdress, crank the heat, run indoors and sweat" form of heat training. Again, better than nothing when its only single digits outside and you want to get ready for a hot race.
Its a tool like lots of other things; use it right and its great.

One of the guys I know from my gym has used TM training for Marathon des Sables...Martin totally "overdresses" and runs with a backpack on the TM.

I've done more TM running this past year than ever before for a variety of reasons. I agree...used right it can be a great alternative to outdoor running.
And an excellent alternative to lying on the couch drinking single malt scotch

Sorry, I didnt mean to ignore the running content of your message and focus solely on the alcohol content.

A friend of mine did a solo unaided crossing of Death Valley a few years ago. He would similarly overdress and hop on the treadmill but added an even weirder training component. Because for the unaided crossing, he would be pulling a trailer with all of his supplies including all the water he would need for the crossing, he would bungie cord himself to a wall and have to pull against the cord resistance while running on the treadmill on the steepest grade setting he could get out of it. I'll try to find a picture of Jeff during this crossing attempt but strangely enough he did a huge amount of his training for this unusual event on the treadmill.

[Jo-Jo]

I also used it a bit for heat training for WS a few years ago when I would do the "overdress, crank the heat, run indoors and sweat" form of heat training. Again, better than nothing when its only single digits outside and you want to get ready for a hot race.
Its a tool like lots of other things; use it right and its great.

One of the guys I know from my gym has used TM training for Marathon des Sables...Martin totally "overdresses" and runs with a backpack on the TM.

I've done more TM running this past year than ever before for a variety of reasons. I agree...used right it can be a great alternative to outdoor running.
And an excellent alternative to lying on the couch drinking single malt scotch

Sorry, I didnt mean to ignore the running content of your message and focus solely on the alcohol content.

A friend of mine did a solo unaided crossing of Death Valley a few years ago. He would similarly overdress and hop on the treadmill but added an even weirder training component. Because for the unaided crossing, he would be pulling a trailer with all of his supplies including all the water he would need for the crossing, he would bungie cord himself to a wall and have to pull against the cord resistance while running on the treadmill on the steepest grade setting he could get out of it. I'll try to find a picture of Jeff during this crossing attempt but strangely enough he did a huge amount of his training for this unusual event on the treadmill.

Cool...I'll definitely have to tell Martin that there's someone stranger than him out there on a TM

[Testa Rossa44]

I hate running on the dreadmill, but it does provide an option when time and/or weather don't/doesn't permit an outdoor run. I would much rather run a 6 mph treadmill run in January than slip/slide/get injured doing an icy 4 mph run outside. I also like to use a slight incline when I run on it, makes it a bit more challenging and makes running on the flat outside soooooo much easier.

[La]

A friend of mine did a solo unaided crossing of Death Valley a few years ago. He would similarly overdress and hop on the treadmill but added an even weirder training component. Because for the unaided crossing, he would be pulling a trailer with all of his supplies including all the water he would need for the crossing, he would bungie cord himself to a wall and have to pull against the cord resistance while running on the treadmill on the steepest grade setting he could get out of it. I'll try to find a picture of Jeff during this crossing attempt but strangely enough he did a huge amount of his training for this unusual event on the treadmill.

I also remember seeing a report about how people trained for Eco Challenge, especially those who live in cooler climates. One team set their treadmills up in an arboretum that was set at 90F with humidity of close to 100% to simulate jungle race conditions.