Running Mania

HCcD wrote:And, they keep getting younger and young nowadays .. Found this thread on slowtwitch.com this morning ...

So in a local half-marathon race yesterday, a woman and her 10 year old son attempt the distance. Long story short, she posts on Facebook how her son's legs were so tired at mile 9 they stop and catch a ride in a van to just short of the finish line, get out and run across the finish line to collect their finishers medals. Mind you, she posts this on the FB page of the race and the race organization actually "like" her post. Obviously, this woman and her son were no threat to win any age-groups and in the grand scheme of things it is no big deal what they did. So, is it ok that they "cheated"? What kind of message is this sending her 10 year old son?

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=3633914;

Classic.

IMHo: Give back the finisher medals. Have a "chat" with the two of them but especially the mother. Defriend her. It is not Grade 4 sports day where everyone gets a ribbon for showing up.

Update ...

England Athletics suspends athlete Rob Sloan for six months

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/athletics/15761394.stm

Re: the kid and mom

That disgusts me. It's a finisher's medal for god sakes. FINISHER not FINISHED. Why don't they pay the $50 million next to all those who played the lottery - well at least the tried.

The kid should learn to walk to the finish like the rest of us. If he wasn't embarrassed as hell he should be.

fingerboy wrote:Re: the kid and mom

That disgusts me. It's a finisher's medal for god sakes. FINISHER not FINISHED. Why don't they pay the $50 million next to all those who played the lottery - well at least the tried.

The kid should learn to walk to the finish like the rest of us. If he wasn't embarrassed as hell he should be.

I disagree... can't miss the forest through the trees. Is it better for a ten year old kid to go home thinking "Doing exercise with Mom is cool!" or "Exercise is painful drudgery"? (Whether Mom should be taking him out to run a half marathon in the first place is another debate.)

I don't see that there's a grander character-related issue there. It's just running. Many of the lowest character people I know are finishers. I don't see a correlation between giving a kid a false finishers' medal and a broader societal problem.

dgrant wrote:I disagree... can't miss the forest through the trees. Is it better for a ten year old kid to go home thinking "Doing exercise with Mom is cool!" or "Exercise is painful drudgery"? (Whether Mom should be taking him out to run a half marathon in the first place is another debate.)

I don't see that there's a grander character-related issue there. It's just running. Many of the lowest character people I know are finishers. I don't see a correlation between giving a kid a false finishers' medal and a broader societal problem.

Sorry I disagree. I see it as a character thing - if it were just running, there would be no need to a) enter a race (okay we all know a race is more fun), or b) drive to the finish and collect the damn medal. I'll take me chances with the exercising thing. It's not a black and white world, and while my views here are quite conservative I think there's merit. This is how we end up with the 99%.

Even, if its just a running thing. The sense of accomplishment, the fight and achievement alone - the emotions of having a goal and conquering it is worth something. Finishing a race makes me want to run another. When I can't finish a race I want to quit and never run again. If someone drove me to the finish I probably wouldn't have ever run again - what would be the point?

My Dad offered me his running medals when I was a kid, sure I wanted them, but I thank my mom for refusing him to give them to me and making me run my own races that lead me to my joy of exercise and where I am. I certainly wouldn't run a minute longer if I couldn't find a purpose like getting faster.

fingerboy wrote:
Even, if its just a running thing. The sense of accomplishment, the fight and achievement alone - the emotions of having a goal and conquering it is worth something. Finishing a race makes me want to run another. When I can't finish a race I want to quit and never run again. If someone drove me to the finish I probably wouldn't have ever run again - what would be the point?

A lot of people would argue that a 10 year old shouldn't be attempting a half marathon in the first place, and I'm sure most who disagree would at least suggest attempting it with caution. A child DNFing a half marathon may indeed be a very prudent decision. Finishing at all cost... I don't know.

If someone drove you to the finish line, the point of ever running again would be
-enjoyment
-fitness
-social interactions
-personal improvement

All kinds of good stuff.

I get what you're saying, but I still say either

a) walk to the finish (there's no shame in it)
b) drive to the finish area (if your car is there) but don't take a medal - tell someone you're dnf'ing. Take food etc sure but leave the medal
c) why even doing it in the first place - no one's going to enjoy a race they can't do / well beyond their limits

Agree to disagree

The only real value to the finisher's medals is that value we attach to them. Personally I don't think it's a big deal that they took medals for participating. It doesn't give them any special privileges and it doesn't take away anything from anyone else's accomplishments. I do think it's pretty ridiculous that she entered her 10-year-old in the race when it was clear he wasn't ready for that distance.

Today, the kid gets a finishers medal without going to the race, tomorrow they're going to expect to get a degree without going to class (or whatever).

I don't blame the race organizers, but the mom needs to give her head a shake. "It doesn't matter that you didn't earn it" isn't a lesson to teach your kids.

Hell, what do I know, maybe "take whatever they'll give you and a little bit more" is a better lesson and actually earning stuff is for suckers.

When I first started running marathons, you didn't get a race shirt until you crossed the finish line (Calgary 1997, Edmonton 1999, Vancouver 2005). Now it's assumed to be part of your entry fee and you could make the same argument with the medals, especially if they don't explicitly say "Finisher". I hope that this boy continues to run in the future, and if he does, he can gradually establish his own set of guidelines for such life-and-death issues like race medals and whether it's OK to wear the race shirt on race day. If those decisions affect my enjoyment of running, that will say a lot more about me than about him.

ian wrote:When I first started running marathons, you didn't get a race shirt until you crossed the finish line (Calgary 1997, Edmonton 1999, Vancouver 2005). Now it's assumed to be part of your entry fee and you could make the same argument with the medals, especially if they don't explicitly say "Finisher". I hope that this boy continues to run in the future, and if he does, he can gradually establish his own set of guidelines for such life-and-death issues like race medals and whether it's OK to wear the race shirt on race day. If those decisions affect my enjoyment of running, that will say a lot more about me than about him.

My thoughts exactly.

I always thought of finisher's medals as quaint souveneirs. They don't actually indicate that you earned anything.
In that way you can't equate finisher's medals to earning a degree. What you "earn" is not a tangible thing you can hold-- it's the act of finishing that is the accomplishment.

Jwolf wrote:

ian wrote:When I first started running marathons, you didn't get a race shirt until you crossed the finish line (Calgary 1997, Edmonton 1999, Vancouver 2005). Now it's assumed to be part of your entry fee and you could make the same argument with the medals, especially if they don't explicitly say "Finisher". I hope that this boy continues to run in the future, and if he does, he can gradually establish his own set of guidelines for such life-and-death issues like race medals and whether it's OK to wear the race shirt on race day. If those decisions affect my enjoyment of running, that will say a lot more about me than about him.

My thoughts exactly.

I always thought of finisher's medals as quaint souveneirs. They don't actually indicate that you earned anything.
In that way you can't equate finisher's medals to earning a degree. What you "earn" is not a tangible thing you can hold-- it's the act of finishing that is the accomplishment.

A finishers degree is not equal to a medal, but I'm assuming that if the kid is being raised with a sense of entitlement its not limited to one area.

turd ferguson wrote:Today, the kid gets a finishers medal without going to the race, tomorrow they're going to expect to get a degree without going to class (or whatever).

I don't blame the race organizers, but the mom needs to give her head a shake. "It doesn't matter that you didn't earn it" isn't a lesson to teach your kids.

Hell, what do I know, maybe "take whatever they'll give you and a little bit more" is a better lesson and actually earning stuff is for suckers.

Pretty much how I think/feel about this.

turd ferguson wrote:

Jwolf wrote:

ian wrote:When I first started running marathons, you didn't get a race shirt until you crossed the finish line (Calgary 1997, Edmonton 1999, Vancouver 2005). Now it's assumed to be part of your entry fee and you could make the same argument with the medals, especially if they don't explicitly say "Finisher". I hope that this boy continues to run in the future, and if he does, he can gradually establish his own set of guidelines for such life-and-death issues like race medals and whether it's OK to wear the race shirt on race day. If those decisions affect my enjoyment of running, that will say a lot more about me than about him.

My thoughts exactly.

I always thought of finisher's medals as quaint souveneirs. They don't actually indicate that you earned anything.
In that way you can't equate finisher's medals to earning a degree. What you "earn" is not a tangible thing you can hold-- it's the act of finishing that is the accomplishment.

A finishers degree is not equal to a medal, but I'm assuming that if the kid is being raised with a sense of entitlement its not limited to one area.

+1
I think Mike and I are singing off the same page

Jo-Jo wrote:

turd ferguson wrote:

Jwolf wrote:

ian wrote:When I first started running marathons, you didn't get a race shirt until you crossed the finish line (Calgary 1997, Edmonton 1999, Vancouver 2005). Now it's assumed to be part of your entry fee and you could make the same argument with the medals, especially if they don't explicitly say "Finisher". I hope that this boy continues to run in the future, and if he does, he can gradually establish his own set of guidelines for such life-and-death issues like race medals and whether it's OK to wear the race shirt on race day. If those decisions affect my enjoyment of running, that will say a lot more about me than about him.

My thoughts exactly.

I always thought of finisher's medals as quaint souveneirs. They don't actually indicate that you earned anything.
In that way you can't equate finisher's medals to earning a degree. What you "earn" is not a tangible thing you can hold-- it's the act of finishing that is the accomplishment.

A finishers degree is not equal to a medal, but I'm assuming that if the kid is being raised with a sense of entitlement its not limited to one area.

+1
I think Mike and I are singing off the same page

I'm joining the chorus with you and Mike. I think we sometimes assume that medals are quaint to everyone because they become quaint to most adult runners after a few races. I can tell you, the kids that I did the 5K with at the Waterfront Races thought their medals were a BFD. BIG TIME. I really don't think the mum and her son should've taken medals. Catching the van to the end... well... if the kid is not ready for the distance, I think it's more important that they have a good experience than that they finish at all costs. But don't catch the van to the end, cross the line, take a medal and call yourself a finisher. Catch the van to the end, have a banana, and sign up for the 10K to EARN your medal next time.

QuickChick wrote:

Jo-Jo wrote:

turd ferguson wrote:

Jwolf wrote:

ian wrote:When I first started running marathons, you didn't get a race shirt until you crossed the finish line (Calgary 1997, Edmonton 1999, Vancouver 2005). Now it's assumed to be part of your entry fee and you could make the same argument with the medals, especially if they don't explicitly say "Finisher". I hope that this boy continues to run in the future, and if he does, he can gradually establish his own set of guidelines for such life-and-death issues like race medals and whether it's OK to wear the race shirt on race day. If those decisions affect my enjoyment of running, that will say a lot more about me than about him.

My thoughts exactly.

I always thought of finisher's medals as quaint souveneirs. They don't actually indicate that you earned anything.
In that way you can't equate finisher's medals to earning a degree. What you "earn" is not a tangible thing you can hold-- it's the act of finishing that is the accomplishment.

A finishers degree is not equal to a medal, but I'm assuming that if the kid is being raised with a sense of entitlement its not limited to one area.

+1
I think Mike and I are singing off the same page

I'm joining the chorus with you and Mike. I think we sometimes assume that medals are quaint to everyone because they become quaint to most adult runners after a few races. I can tell you, the kids that I did the 5K with at the Waterfront Races thought their medals were a BFD. BIG TIME. I really don't think the mum and her son should've taken medals. Catching the van to the end... well... if the kid is not ready for the distance, I think it's more important that they have a good experience than that they finish at all costs. But don't catch the van to the end, cross the line, take a medal and call yourself a finisher. Catch the van to the end, have a banana, and sign up for the 10K to EARN your medal next time.

Agreed. And I think the for the kids for whom their 5k medals were a BFD was because they did it. The finished. I hope the kid involved in this story finishes a race on his own steam (1k, 5k or whatever) and feels that sense of accomplishment.

QuickChick wrote:But don't catch the van to the end, cross the line, take a medal and call yourself a finisher. Catch the van to the end, have a banana, and sign up for the 10K to EARN your medal next time.

Agreed.

I sort of remember when I was 10 mainly because I remember who my friends were. Now if I was a really good BSer, I would have flashed my medal to them and said I ran the entire race and finished it in style. If I told them the truth, at that age, I would have been teased about it. Forever. Even my sisters who are just a bit older would never let me hear the end of it. That medal would just be an object that I would have to hide because I'm not a good BSer and wouldn't be able to stand the torment. I don't think that kids are that clued out at 10 to know what's right and wrong. Unless they're a good BSer.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think they should have done it. But I don't think it's a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I didn't read anywhere that the 10-year-old was going around BS-ing that he had finished the half-marathon-- they just took the medals essentially as participation souveneirs. The mom told the race organizers what they did and were given the medals. She even openly posted on the race FB page that they had only run 9 miles and collected their medals-- they weren't doing it to deceive anyone. The race organizers could have told them that the medals were only for finishers-- but they didn't.

I guess I just think we place too much importance on the medal as an indicator of a finish. It's not really-- it's just a thing. Your finish is what you did. When I finished my first marathon in Vancouver 2006, my kids received the exact same medal for finishing the kid's 1-mile Marafun. Technically they "earned" the medal because they were supposed to run 25.2 miles in the six weeks leading up to the race. So they ran a marathon, in a way. They weren't going around showing people that they had just run 26.2 miles that day.

eta: I read further in that slow-twitch thread and apparently there's a LOT more to the story. (big surprise). The kid is disabled, had never run more than 5K (so WTH was she doing with him in a half-marathon?), and they had to stop at the medical tent at 9 miles. The medical staff strongly encouraged them to take a van to the finish-- I guess mom understood this to mean she could go to the finish line. After she posted a thank-you to the organizers on FB, she got a lot of grief for collecting finishers' medals and has decided to give them back.

turd ferguson wrote:I'm assuming that if the kid is being raised with a sense of entitlement its not limited to one area.

Holy Tebow, that's a major stretch IMHO. Lots of people compartmentalize jogging into the category of "things that don't matter one iota and let's just do it for fun and no other reason"... and it doesn't bleed into or reflect on other aspects of their lives or decision-making. Who knows? Maybe this lady makes her kid do two hours of homework every night and take out the trash, but assigns no particular importance to a day of jogging around with a piece of tyvek on her shirt. I don't know, but maybe.

I was only looking at it from my own "10 year old" point of view. I know it didn't say anywhere he was bs-ing people but I wonder how he feels about this medal. I was just saying how I would feel about it.

I don't think the marafun is comparable. Everyone presumably followed the rules.

dgrant wrote:

turd ferguson wrote:I'm assuming that if the kid is being raised with a sense of entitlement its not limited to one area.

Holy Tebow, that's a major stretch IMHO. Lots of people compartmentalize jogging into the category of "things that don't matter one iota and let's just do it for fun and no other reason"... and it doesn't bleed into or reflect on other aspects of their lives or decision-making. Who knows? Maybe this lady makes her kid do two hours of homework every night and take out the trash, but assigns no particular importance to a day of jogging around with a piece of tyvek on her shirt. I don't know, but maybe.

Maybe. But I'm also assuming that people are usually pretty consistent.

A great teaching opportunity lost. She could have shown her son how to DFN properly and fairly, explained to him that this is an outcome for lots of people, praise him for his effort and help him choose a more appropriate race for his next effort. It must be confusing for a 10 year old when his mom says he can finish a race and get a finishers medal without finishing. What will he do next time or when he is on his own?? Mom gets "F" in parenting where I come from.

With tongue planted firmly in cheek, let me paraphrase the emerging consensus here:

Children should act like adults and learn the hard lessons of life as soon as possible so that they can become adults who act like children and get shiny prizes for playing a game.

So, apparently, from reading the update on slowtwitch ....

.... Anyways, on FB, she has posted that she will return the finisher's medals since she is catching grief from others. She said her son has disabilities and has never even run a 5k and her son was encouraged by medical staff at mile 9 to stop running and catch a ride to the finish line.

I think the mom had good intentions but failed miserably by allowing an under-prepared 10 year with disabilities to attempt a distance he couldn't handle and then breaking the rules by her actions during the event.

I have read the posts here with interest and thought I'd chime in with my 1.5 cents. First, as we see in Jen's post, there was more to the story. I wondered if perhaps the kid had trained hard, or perhaps had overcome a significant obstacle ( apparently he was disabled), and maybe had given it everything he had, so that the distance he covered was a major accomplishment. Maybe Mom felt proud of what he had done, and thought the medal would encourage him more. If that was the case, perhaps the medal was a nice reward. Having said that the Mom should have declined the medal for herself; it is a finsher's medal, not a medal for just crossing the finish line.
Stories like this leave me shaking my head.