Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

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carm
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Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby carm » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:29 pm

Wow, there will be a big change to ATB next year - no early start and a 4.5 hour time-limit for the 30K. I feel bad for many of the walkers and more patient runners who enjoy this event. A 4.5h 30K is a 9 min/km pace.

To better serve participants, the Bay Race has set the following limits for 2013:

30k Road Race — 8,500 participants (please note one start for the 30k only — 9:30am — 4.5 hour time limit)
5k — 2,300 participants
3-person Relay teams — 250 teams
2-person Relay teams — 250 teams
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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby Dr. S » Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:15 pm

Wow I'm surprised about the no early start!
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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby Irongirl » Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:05 pm

how many participants did it have this year?

most of my walkers in my clinics can walk at 9 min/km pace......I don't think that's being too harsh.
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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby carm » Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:20 am

Irongirl wrote:how many participants did it have this year?

most of my walkers in my clinics can walk at 9 min/km pace......I don't think that's being too harsh.


The early start this year had 49 men & 146 women with average time : 4:02:51.5. About 40 of them came in after 4.5 hours.

For the average walker training for a longer distance event, how much faster than 9 mpk they can complete a course that's similar to ATB, which is rolling in the last 8-9k? If it was a goal race for me, I wouldn't want to sneak in just under the time limit. I have a friend who's was planning on walking ATB next year and she can't walk a 9 mpk (she does around 9:4X mpk over 5-10k's). I'm kind of disappointed for her but at least she can focus her training toward a half marathon instead.
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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby Irongirl » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:23 am

good stats.

how many participants did they have overall last year?

I saw a lot of people finishing with the 2:00 - 2:30 group that obviously started in the early start - which didn't make sense to me - why would you start in the early start if you plan to go between 3:00 and 3:30?
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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby URG » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:54 am

Irongirl wrote:good stats.

how many participants did they have overall last year?

I saw a lot of people finishing with the 2:00 - 2:30 group that obviously started in the early start - which didn't make sense to me - why would you start in the early start if you plan to go between 3:00 and 3:30?



I struggled with the walker start vs. the runner start as I knew my finish time was between 330-4hrs. As the race instructions advised all slow runners who anticipate finishing over 4 hours, should start with the walkers. Because I was 'borderline', I knew if something went wrong, I'd be finishing over 4. In the end though, my pride decided to start with the runners, and although I did struggle, I finished under the 4hrs with a bit of time to spare. I agree though, for those that did finish between 3 and 330 hours and started early, they gave themselves quite a safety net.

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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby La » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:59 am

I'm somewhat surprised that this is the only change they are making. What about start corrals? That would make a bigger impact to a larger number of people.

I guess that for those who are impacted (the few hundred who start early) it's a significant change, but they are a small minority of the population.
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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby URG » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:11 am

Perhaps they should split it into two corrals. I didn't experience any congestion being near the back of the pack, however, perhaps those at the front-to midway did?

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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby ceileigh » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:24 am

My friend walked it this year She is 72. She did it in 3:48 with a pace of 7:37 / km She told me they were planning to walk / run but it was mainly walk with some running to get a faster pace (so if you think 10:1 it would be walk 10 run 1). She does a lot of cycling and her aerobic health and leg strength are incredible! But she is not the average walker!

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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby deerdree » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:38 am

243 people competed in the "walk" category and 157 (65%) of them took longer than 4.5 hours.

i think 9 min/km is very reasonable as a limit for runners, but it will definitely cut out a large chunk of the walkers.

eta: i had to redo these numbers because i realized that i'd originally used "placing" to count the 4:30 position, but because of the early versus normal start, the walkers' placing is really mixed up.

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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby deerdree » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:49 am

Irongirl wrote:good stats.

how many participants did they have overall last year?

I saw a lot of people finishing with the 2:00 - 2:30 group that obviously started in the early start - which didn't make sense to me - why would you start in the early start if you plan to go between 3:00 and 3:30?

similarly, the person with the fastest time in the early start ran it in 2:40. maybe people were abusing the option just so they could finish earlier in the day?

according the sportstats, 6585 people started the 30 km. not sure how many registered.

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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby toobusy » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:24 am

FInish earlier in the day - or avoid congestion at the start?

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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby cbaker1 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:01 am

I was wondering why ATB made the change and one of the first things that popped into my mind was how I you can sometimes encounter a "Wall" of 4 or 5 walkers wide (for me at about 10-13km). I assume the lead pack would encounter them closer to 5-6 km where there are some twists and turns in the course. I wonder if they had complaints from some of the top runners that had to make significant changes in their running line.

I am not saying a lot of the walkers walk in a line, but I have encountered it most years I have run the race.

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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby canalrunner » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:14 am

I haven't run this race so it feels odd to comment however from the descriptions it seems like this race is crying out for a two wave start. One for those who have a legitimate shot at a gold or silver medal awarded the same day based on gun time, and those who are running for chip time goals. It would mean having some sort of qualifying standard for the first wave---say 1:45 half marathon time. This might reduce the chaotic start corral because more than most races the gun time really matters for a lot of runners and is seen to matter for even more.

I am not a big fan of early starts. When the numbers are small, it is not a problem but as the numbers grow, the wall seems to grow.
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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby La » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:57 am

canalrunner wrote:I haven't run this race so it feels odd to comment however from the descriptions it seems like this race is crying out for a two wave start. One for those who have a legitimate shot at a gold or silver medal awarded the same day based on gun time, and those who are running for chip time goals. It would mean having some sort of qualifying standard for the first wave---say 1:45 half marathon time. This might reduce the chaotic start corral because more than most races the gun time really matters for a lot of runners and is seen to matter for even more.

I am not a big fan of early starts. When the numbers are small, it is not a problem but as the numbers grow, the wall seems to grow.

I think corrals would be sufficient, rather than actual wave starts. Though the Yonge St. 10K (15,000 runners last year under the Sporting Life name) had wave starts (just a few minutes apart) and it was great since I was near the front of the 3rd wave.

I understand how people want to walk (and even run) as a group, since many people trained that way, but are people that unaware of their surroundings in a race that it doesn't occur to them that it would be a good idea to walk/run single file? :?

For the lead runners, there would be an escort vehicle, presumably warning the early start walkers/runners to move to the side, and that really should be their cue to STAY to the side for the remainder of the race.
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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby Mark.AU » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:28 am

La wrote:...but are people that unaware of their surroundings in a race that it doesn't occur to them that it would be a good idea to walk/run single file? :?

Yes.
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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby scrumhalfgirl » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:43 am

Mark 2.0 wrote:
La wrote:...but are people that unaware of their surroundings in a race that it doesn't occur to them that it would be a good idea to walk/run single file? :?

Yes.


Agreed - while many of the congestion problems would be eliminated if early starters stuck to the edge of the road in a single file, the fact is, many of them did not. I had to do a lot of dodging at various points in the races, and since it was so congested with runners from my own group, it was often hard to get around people.
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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby Spirit Unleashed » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:13 pm

Talk about a wall: one time I was in a race on a bike path. I encountered 3 rather wide ladies jogging side by side across the path. They were wearing matching t-shirts that said "hippo" on the back, and I swear they jogged like hippos and trying to get around them was difficult; for me and thousands of others.

But I think some people think the path is theirs all the time, race or not, and expect your need to pass as your problem. Especially bad if they have a dog too.
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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby Spirit Unleashed » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:13 pm

haha, I just ranted! :D
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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby erinmcd » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:50 pm

TexasSpirit wrote:haha, I just ranted! :D

Well done!
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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby fingerboy » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:32 pm

La wrote:
canalrunner wrote:I haven't run this race so it feels odd to comment however from the descriptions it seems like this race is crying out for a two wave start. One for those who have a legitimate shot at a gold or silver medal awarded the same day based on gun time, and those who are running for chip time goals. It would mean having some sort of qualifying standard for the first wave---say 1:45 half marathon time. This might reduce the chaotic start corral because more than most races the gun time really matters for a lot of runners and is seen to matter for even more.

I am not a big fan of early starts. When the numbers are small, it is not a problem but as the numbers grow, the wall seems to grow.

I think corrals would be sufficient, rather than actual wave starts. Though the Yonge St. 10K (15,000 runners last year under the Sporting Life name) had wave starts (just a few minutes apart) and it was great since I was near the front of the 3rd wave.

I understand how people want to walk (and even run) as a group, since many people trained that way, but are people that unaware of their surroundings in a race that it doesn't occur to them that it would be a good idea to walk/run single file? :?

For the lead runners, there would be an escort vehicle, presumably warning the early start walkers/runners to move to the side, and that really should be their cue to STAY to the side for the remainder of the race.



Again it comes down to the medals I think...

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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby fingerboy » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:36 pm

Mark 2.0 wrote:
La wrote:...but are people that unaware of their surroundings in a race that it doesn't occur to them that it would be a good idea to walk/run single file? :?

Yes.



This is one of the reasons why I'm not against the rule changes. Walkers forget that they only get this chance because of the race, it is a race, and that they can impede the racers.

It's also a problem because they will walk the narrowest portions of the course and block you from the corners etc. (i.e taking the most direct route) Its part of the "you have to go around them" issue.


However it is kind of nice to have ppl to go blowing past for the whole course. It gets lonely up there. It ads to the feel of the population. I do think on the Burlington part walkers were more generally on the right side letting runners to the left, with some exceptions.

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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby HCcD » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:30 am

carm wrote:Wow, there will be a big change to ATB next year - no early start and a 4.5 hour time-limit for the 30K. I feel bad for many of the walkers and more patient runners who enjoy this event. A 4.5h 30K is a 9 min/km pace.

To better serve participants, the Bay Race has set the following limits for 2013:

30k Road Race — 8,500 participants (please note one start for the 30k only — 9:30am — 4.5 hour time limit)
5k — 2,300 participants
3-person Relay teams — 250 teams
2-person Relay teams — 250 teams


A bit late chiming in on this, in effect, it appears that they just eliminated the walking category, as there does not appear to be that option for 2013, as it has been offered in the past ....
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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby deerdree » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:16 am

HCcD wrote:
carm wrote:Wow, there will be a big change to ATB next year - no early start and a 4.5 hour time-limit for the 30K. I feel bad for many of the walkers and more patient runners who enjoy this event. A 4.5h 30K is a 9 min/km pace.

To better serve participants, the Bay Race has set the following limits for 2013:

30k Road Race — 8,500 participants (please note one start for the 30k only — 9:30am — 4.5 hour time limit)
5k — 2,300 participants
3-person Relay teams — 250 teams
2-person Relay teams — 250 teams


A bit late chiming in on this, in effect, it appears that they just eliminated the walking category, as there does not appear to be that option for 2013, as it has been offered in the past ....

the walkers never had their own awards, so i'm not even sure it was a true "category" to begin with. they were listed separately in the results, but that's about it.

86 of the (243) walkers this year would have made the 4.5 hour cut-off - i wonder if they'll still have race walkers register next year if they eliminate the "category"?

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Re: Around the Bay 30K 2013 Changes

Postby HCcD » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:21 am

deerdree wrote:
HCcD wrote:
carm wrote:Wow, there will be a big change to ATB next year - no early start and a 4.5 hour time-limit for the 30K. I feel bad for many of the walkers and more patient runners who enjoy this event. A 4.5h 30K is a 9 min/km pace.

To better serve participants, the Bay Race has set the following limits for 2013:

30k Road Race — 8,500 participants (please note one start for the 30k only — 9:30am — 4.5 hour time limit)
5k — 2,300 participants
3-person Relay teams — 250 teams
2-person Relay teams — 250 teams


A bit late chiming in on this, in effect, it appears that they just eliminated the walking category, as there does not appear to be that option for 2013, as it has been offered in the past ....

the walkers never had their own awards, so i'm not even sure it was a true "category" to begin with. they were listed separately in the results, but that's about it.

86 of the (243) walkers this year would have made the 4.5 hour cut-off - i wonder if they'll still have race walkers register next year if they eliminate the "category"?


That was kinda my point / observation ... as, they had a separate registration category in the past for walkers ... so, as was pointed above, with only 243 walkers registered, the logistics to open up the race course, and have volunteers out there before 8:30am for an 8:30am early start time, etc., may not just be worth the extra hassle to the race organizers ... :think: :think: :think:
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