How much is too much?

[Dstew]

I am trying to figure out how to approach my next marathon. I have a very general goal of lose 20 pounds in sensible way and in the process also lose 20 minutes from my current marathon time.

The approach I took training for my most recent marathon was clearly the only viable option for me. Out of running for over a year, a very weak base, putting in a ton of relatively slow miles was required to be able to build the endurance I required. But with those miles, any effective speed work was nearly impossible for me as when I did start to focus on that, old injuries started to arise and when I cut back on the intensity of the runs, the injuries settled.

So I looked back at what worked for me in the past. When I was at my fastest, I ran hard and on occasion far but I would not run often. In fact I had no problem throwing in an extra rest day or even two. I also tended to do better when I would substitute a simple "run" with bike or elliptical, etc and supplement that with weights three times a week. In looking back, my biggest problems came with too many races in a row and thus too focused on running at the expense of both "crossing training" and overall rest.

So in my mind, I thought run 3 - 5 days a week, do at least one day of bike and one day of elliptical, stepper, swim, etc and supplement all of this with three days of strength training. Bored, I went to Sweat Science at Runner's World to see if I could see if there was any validity to this general concept.

The first article I find is yet another study that showed high intensity intervals provided the same or even better results than endurance runs. I need to burn calories and that is a good thing for someone who really enjoys intervals. Now the author did note intervals are good for the muscle and endurance for the heart. In my last race, my heart was great, my lungs even better but it was my muscles that let me down so it is not to say I will abandon or even give up the long run but some hard intervals in place of a 10 or 15 K mid week run seems to work for me.

There are a number of articles about the recent long term study that showed very high mileage and endurance running over a long period of time can lead to permanent heart scaring. That for health, the ideal is 20 miles per week at 8 minute miles. However, what was encouraging from my perspective as another study that did not be any publicity that showed that 5 hours per week at 7 minute miles or about 43 miles per week is actually quite good for one.

http://www.runninginjuryfree.org/2008/0 ... n-our.html

A 7 minute mile is quite ambitious for my 10 - 16 K runs but the general principle of running those a little faster seems to suit my new approach.

A list of other studies follows but the big one for my training is that 45 miles per week seems to be the "magic" number to avoid heart issues in running the marathon itself.

http://www.runninginjuryfree.org/2008/0 ... n-our.html

[On an unrelated side note, all of the studies do seem to justify and rationalize my decision not to enter any ultra marathon events other then maybe a close 50 K event one day].

For my last marathon, my weekly average including a 3 week taper was 86 kilometers per week and around 94 kilometers per week if the taper weeks are removed. Remove the taper weeks and I averaged 5.5 runs per week. Although I did attempt to incorporate some speed work, most of that was limited to marathon paced runs. There was no real cross training to speak of. So the plan is to go down to 4 runs per week with a pre-taper average of closer to 70 kilometers per week. As noted, two days of cross training and three days of weights. Mileage runs to be replaced with intervals, tempo and hills. I will also work my way slower to long runs but instead of 30 + seconds slower than marathon pace, I would like to be closer to 15 seconds slower.

Any comments, observations, things that have worked for them?

[DougG]

At my best my times are (relatively) slow, but I find when I take more rest I run much better and stronger. I need to run slower between races to build my base, and toss in some speed work once in awhile. What tends to do me in is I enjoy running and will want to run more often, only to pull a muscle or aggravate an old injury. Nothing major but enough to interrupt the training. My dilemma is if I run, say 3x/week I lose that momentum, and 3 days become 2. It is a balance and now that I am trying again, I need to practise patience (never my strong suit ).

[Jwolf]

At my best my times are (relatively) slow, but I find when I take more rest I run much better and stronger. I need to run slower between races to build my base, and toss in some speed work once in awhile. What tends to do me in is I enjoy running and will want to run more often, only to pull a muscle or aggravate an old injury. Nothing major but enough to interrupt the training. My dilemma is if I run, say 3x/week I lose that momentum, and 3 days become 2. It is a balance and now that I am trying again, I need to practise patience (never my strong suit ).

I'm not sure I followed all of Dave's post or what the question is up there, but FWIW, to respond to your post Doug:

I'm finding what is working for me best now is to go back to running 3-4 days/week plus cross-training to prevent reaggravation of this injury. I keep the momentum going because I'm doing something almost every day (1 complete rest day per week). I'm essentially running every other day with cycling or other stuff at the gym on days in between; it makes me look forward to the next run that much more.

I don't expect this will get my fastest times, but I want to stay injury-free now.

[DougG]

Jen, you explained it much better than I did.

[HCcD]

After Goofy 2013 in January, I may turn to Crossfit

I have also noticed that regular resistance workouts, in particularly, the lower body, does help me reduce the overuse and imbalances that running alone may have caused, as a result ...

And, for some **** in mental focus, would also be adding back regulard spinning into my schedule this winter, as well as getting back to regular cycling and perhaps duathlons in 2013 ...