Pistorius charged with murder!

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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby drghfx » Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:46 am

...well apparently it was the neighbours that called about the gun shots. You'd think that if you accidentally shot your girlfriend you'd be calling 911yourself immediately.

CNN is saying the police are calling it premeditated.
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby jamix » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:06 am

An interviewer last year wrote that Pistorius, who lives in a high-security gated community, slept with a revolver by his bed, a baseball bat behind his door and a machine gun by the window.


:shock:
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby eme » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:09 am

jamix wrote:
An interviewer last year wrote that Pistorius, who lives in a high-security gated community, slept with a revolver by his bed, a baseball bat behind his door and a machine gun by the window.


:shock:


For perspective, flamethrowers are legal as an anti-carjacking defensive weapon:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaster_(flamethrower)

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/africa/9812/11/flame.thrower.car/
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby Jwolf » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:21 am

cbaker1 wrote:I am shocked that people are actually shocked that this guy could be charged with murder.


+1
What surprises me is how the media seems to be trying to make excuses for him without even knowing the whole story behind the shooting, or ignoring what we do know.

From the Vancouver Sun (via Postmedia) this morning:

Oscar Pistorius, the heroic ‘Blade Runner,’ wasn't the whole story
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby jonovision_man » Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:04 am

Jwolf wrote:
cbaker1 wrote:I am shocked that people are actually shocked that this guy could be charged with murder.


+1
What surprises me is how the media seems to be trying to make excuses for him without even knowing the whole story behind the shooting, or ignoring what we do know.

From the Vancouver Sun (via Postmedia) this morning:

Oscar Pistorius, the heroic ‘Blade Runner,’ wasn't the whole story


Feels like groundhog day - we just went through this with Lance, once people decide someone is a "hero" it takes quite a lot for some to come to terms with the truth.

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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby Dstew » Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:59 pm

Jwolf wrote:
cbaker1 wrote:I am shocked that people are actually shocked that this guy could be charged with murder.


+1
What surprises me is how the media seems to be trying to make excuses for him without even knowing the whole story behind the shooting, or ignoring what we do know.

From the Vancouver Sun (via Postmedia) this morning:

Oscar Pistorius, the heroic ‘Blade Runner,’ wasn't the whole story


I do not see the author the article making excuses. His conclusion is that:

Sports reveal character, but we can't truly know if whatever drove an athlete to greatness was nobility or obsession or a hidden reservoir of rage. We can't truly know what fame does to somebody. We can't know a person, not really, no matter how many TV interviews or magazine features or newspaper columns they are in. Sports, and sportswriting, offers snapshots, glimpses, hints, or façades. Some of it is real, but none of it is ever comprehensive. We think we know, and we don't, and we have to be reminded of this over and over again, because the lights are bright, and sports can be beautiful, and it causes us to forget, and believe again. Because we want it to be true.


Because someone can run really fast or bike really well society tends to believe that they must have superior character. Ray Lewis in an interview made the same sort of comments to the effect if he was truly responsible and a part of the murders years ago, why would god make him an all pro. Oscar does some remarkable athletic feats and instead of merely recognizing and acknowledging that, society instead idolizes him, makes him a hero and puts him up on the pedestal. Lance, Ray Lewis, the list is endless so that when they do something bad, some people cannot wait to pull them down so the next new hero can go up and others double down. There is a study of those attempting to summit Mt. Everest and if they choose a dangerous route and all the evidence mounts it is not the right decision, many people tend to become even more entrenched as if the doubt actually strengthens their resolve. The same applies to hero worship.

This should not come as a surprise because we all want to believe in something and sports achievement is an easy and accessible way to do things. Add in we also like to join a tribe we believe instills or demands superior qualities and mix the two together, running, biking or whatever and feelings one way or the other will run high. Quick to condemn and judge without all of the facts or defend in spite of those facts. Roughly 14,000,000 people in a race in the US in 2011 and with those numbers, it is only logical and reasonable to believe that a wide cross section of society will be represented but many do not really want to acknowledge that. So again, no surprise if some react with outrage and a need to strike the offending person from the record and others, to defend but both actually share the same thought, a runner does not murder in cold blood so the accused must either be innocent or not really a runner.

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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby Jwolf » Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:20 pm

Dstew wrote:I do not see the author the article making excuses. His conclusion is that...


I didn't mean the author of that article. I meant the earlier media reports that speculated Pistorius mistook his girlfriend for an intruder. People were "shocked" by the idea that he could be involved in a murder because of the one-sided hero image we had been given before. I was surprised that earlier media reports seemed to convey similar "shock" and were therefore speculating with possible explanations of accidental death. It's one thing for the general public to be eluded; I am surprised that many in the media seemed to jump on the bandwagon.

I gave the PostMedia column to support my opinion that there is a lot more to Pistorius than we were led to believe before, and therefore shouldn't really be shocked.
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby Dstew » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:09 pm

Jwolf wrote: It's one thing for the general public to be eluded; I am surprised that many in the media seemed to jump on the bandwagon.

I gave the PostMedia column to support my opinion that there is a lot more to Pistorius than we were led to believe before, and therefore shouldn't really be shocked.


I am not surprised for two reasons:

Athletes and Associations understand and appreciate the value of a good PR machine. Heart warming and inspirational story that did not need a look of embellishment or dressing up. Born with a disadvantage and overcomes that to compete with Olympic athletes, blah, blah, blah. One can only speculate if Oscar and/or the South African bodies were able to hide what seems to be a long standing history of rage and maybe even violence against women. A great set of facts and a well crafted public persona that if done right, anyone can seem to forget the mask when the athlete is not on the track.

The second is that there were probably more than a few in the media that did make the fallacy of over generalization, composition and of causation and as such their initial reaction was to deny and excuse in order to deny and excuse their logical errors. Oscar overcame, he presented very well and because he could run really fast, that meant he had to have strong character and was a good person or so many in the media reported when this was a story in last summer. In my opinion, the one and only true inspirational story was that someone with the right will power, resources and ability can overcome obstacles to achieve their goals. We, and that includes the media do fall into a Ray Lewis type mentality that a "bad" person cannot not or should not achieve great things. Mr Lewis' argument went even further to invoke the name of god in suggesting that a kind and loving Christian god would not and could not allow a bad person to lead his team to a superbowl. It is not an easy concept to abandon and the same people who praised Oscar as a great human being despite not having a clue about who he really is or was are now likely to either defend him to the end no matter what the evidence has to say or as with Lance, rip everything he did to shreds because clearly a bad person cannot do good things so the good things have to be swept aside with as much or more vigor than the original praise that raised Oscar onto the pedestal.

My opinion is that if we were to recognize great athletic achievements on just the merits of what was done and how it was done, we would not have to go through this cycle of raising someone way above where they were and then equally overreacting in the other direction. As the author of the article that was quoted seems to be saying is that you can appreciate what Oscar did on the track and at the same time disapprove and despise what he did off the track and behind closed doors. If he fooled us and the media is because we let ourselves be fooled. We cannot seem to accept that there can be a duality or compartmentalization. Someone might be the worst cheat in running because that may be the only source for an ego boast or self esteem that they rely upon from external sources and yet and/or may think it does not really matter because it is a hobby but very good in ever other aspect of their lives. Or they might just be a scum bag at everything they do. And when one speaks of the media, much easier to see it as a simple black and white rather than dig into the potential complexities of the human experience.

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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby jonovision_man » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:26 pm

Great athletic achievements like using superior carbon fiber legs to get badly beaten at the Olympics?

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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby drghfx » Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:37 pm

I think they was a clue to the real guy when, after losing the Paralympics 200m he immediately accused the winner of having legs longer than his and therefore he didn't have to take as many steps. It actually turned out that the guy took more steps. Pistorius' PR team quickly shut him up and got him to apologize so they wouldn't damage the Pistorius brand. And that is all most of these athletes are, a brand.

BTW, they say there was a bloodied cricket bat in Pistorius' house but they don't know whose blood it was. They think the girlfriend may have used it for self defense. They also say that they think she was shot in the hip first in the bedroom and then ran into the bathroom and locked herself in there. They think she was in pain and was bending down with her hands on her head. The next bullet went through her hand and into her head.
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby Dstew » Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:15 pm

jonovision_man wrote:Great athletic achievements like using superior carbon fiber legs to get badly beaten at the Olympics?

jono


Double amputee that whatever advantage he might have had actually made it to the Olympics to me is a remarkable achievement but I suppose Haters got to Hate.

I do have a question, now that Lance is exposed and disgraced, Oscar it appears will be in jail, what are you going to do with all of your free time? There are no doubt other super villains out there so I am sure we all want to know who is your next target in order to make the world a better and safer place in order to run or ride a bike.

I do have another question that was bugging me. You had used the false equivalency of suggesting someone who uses drugs to ride a bike faster is exactly the same a drug lord who kills and hurts people both directly and indirectly because one raised money for cancer and one built hospitals. So Oscar that may or may not have a slight advantage because of the blades and was an ambassador for this sport means he is the same as ??/ Stalin, Hitler, ????



Even if we ignore the governing bodies that disagree with you and have access to information you do not have and accept your premise that Oscar gained some advantage, that he even made it to a point where he got his butt kicked is going to inspire a lot of people.

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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby jonovision_man » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:33 am

Dstew wrote:I do have another question that was bugging me. You had used the false equivalency of suggesting someone who uses drugs to ride a bike faster is exactly the same a drug lord who kills and hurts people both directly and indirectly because one raised money for cancer and one built hospitals. So Oscar that may or may not have a slight advantage because of the blades and was an ambassador for this sport means he is the same as ??/ Stalin, Hitler, ????


It was an analogy, I never said "exactly the same".

Dstew wrote:Even if we ignore the governing bodies that disagree with you and have access to information you do not have and accept your premise that Oscar gained some advantage, that he even made it to a point where he got his butt kicked is going to inspire a lot of people.


I'm sure, but you claimed he had made a "great athletic achievement" - his performance at the Olympics and later at the Paralympics shows that the achievements were more political (fighting for inclusion into the Olympics) than athletic. As an athlete he was a bit of a dud.

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Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby QuickChick » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:51 am

Ouch. I guess he wasn't a great shot either... [url=Oscar Pistorius: Bloodied bat found at murder scene, source says
http://bit.ly/12YWdS9]Bloodied Bat Found at Murder Scene[/url] This just gets worse and worse. :(
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby RA. » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:00 am

This thread is no reason for people to continue to break forum rules.

1) No obscenities or explicit talk, please; let's keep it family-friendly!
2) No flaming, insults, etc.
3) No spamming.
4) Respect is key. We welcome diverse discussion and opinions, but within the boundaries of respect for others and their opinions.

For those of you breaking the rules, please edit your posts to remove insults and maintain respectful comments about the other members. If you don't, I will.
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby trixiee » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:14 am

Thank you RA.
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby DougG » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:33 am

Maybe I am cynical in my old age. :oops: Nothing an athlete (or 'celebrity')does surprises me anymore. I just read that country singer Mindy McCready killed herself this weekend. This is sad, but once again a case of someone great at something, but flawed as a human being like the rest of us.
They are human.
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby Engmomma » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:43 am

DougG wrote:Maybe I am cynical in my old age. :oops: Nothing an athlete (or 'celebrity')does surprises me anymore. I just read that country singer Mindy McCready killed herself this weekend. This is sad, but once again a case of someone great at something, but flawed as a human being like the rest of us.
They are human.


suicide doesn't make a human flawed...it is an illness....
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby DougG » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:54 am

Engmomma wrote:
DougG wrote:Maybe I am cynical in my old age. :oops: Nothing an athlete (or 'celebrity')does surprises me anymore. I just read that country singer Mindy McCready killed herself this weekend. This is sad, but once again a case of someone great at something, but flawed as a human being like the rest of us.
They are human.


suicide doesn't make a human flawed...it is an illness....


Flawed means we aren't perfect, that we have flaws. Everyone is flawed in some way.
2014
injured
2013
Snowflake 10k....stopped at 5k
Rest of the year a write off because of injury.
2012
Snowflake 10k Jan 1 done
Run 4 Kids 10k Jan 7 done
Harry's Spring Run Off 8k. April 8 a disaster, but I finished
Centurion 50k at Horseshoe Valley (cycling) done
Centurion 50 miler at Blue Mountain (cycling) done.....barely!
Snowflake 5k, Dec 16 - done
2011
Harry Rosen 8k. April. done
Rotary 5k fun run. May. done
CANI 10k. June. done
Canada Day 10k. July. done
Barrie Waterfront 5k. Aug. done
CANI 10 k. Oct. done
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby Engmomma » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:18 am

DougG wrote:
Engmomma wrote:
DougG wrote:Maybe I am cynical in my old age. :oops: Nothing an athlete (or 'celebrity')does surprises me anymore. I just read that country singer Mindy McCready killed herself this weekend. This is sad, but once again a case of someone great at something, but flawed as a human being like the rest of us.
They are human.


suicide doesn't make a human flawed...it is an illness....


Flawed means we aren't perfect, that we have flaws. Everyone is flawed in some way.


Mental illness is not a personal flaw, it is an illness.

Having poor time management or money management or picking your nose are human flaws but are not an illness.

Mindy died of mental illness, not a personal flaw.

I rarely "argue" in a public forum but this is why people are reluctant to talk about mental illness. Because the masses think that having a mental illness is a personality "flaw".
The Summer of Eng is over.

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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby MINITEE » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:48 am

Engmomma wrote:
DougG wrote:
Engmomma wrote:
DougG wrote:Maybe I am cynical in my old age. :oops: Nothing an athlete (or 'celebrity')does surprises me anymore. I just read that country singer Mindy McCready killed herself this weekend. This is sad, but once again a case of someone great at something, but flawed as a human being like the rest of us.
They are human.


suicide doesn't make a human flawed...it is an illness....


Flawed means we aren't perfect, that we have flaws. Everyone is flawed in some way.


Mental illness is not a personal flaw, it is an illness.

Having poor time management or money management or picking your nose are human flaws but are not an illness.

Mindy died of mental illness, not a personal flaw.

I rarely "argue" in a public forum but this is why people are reluctant to talk about mental illness. Because the masses think that having a mental illness is a personality "flaw".


+1 to Eng...
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby jgore » Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:39 am

I think Doug's choice of the word flaw has led to a misunderstanding of his intent. I did not take his meaning as being that she displayed a personality flaw.
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby ultraslacker » Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:42 am

I think this is an issue of semantics... the fact that we are "flawed" does not imply that we are culpable for those flaws. I was born with crooked teeth... that is a flaw. It doesn't make me less of a person. We're born with all sorts of flaws... any kind of illness (physical or mental) or imperfection is a flaw. That's not a judgment on anyone's character. :)

I'd also question the idea of suicide being an illness... rather, it's the result of an illness. Suicide itself is an action... depression (or whatever else may lead to suicide) is the illness. Again, just semantics. :)
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby erinmcd » Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:45 am

The plot thickens- steroids were allegedly found at his house.

Sadly, this will probably enrage people more than the death of the woman.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/others ... urder.html
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby jgore » Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:46 am

What Holly said.:smile:

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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby jonovision_man » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:29 pm

erinmcd wrote:The plot thickens- steroids were allegedly found at his house.

Sadly, this will probably enrage people more than the death of the woman.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/others ... urder.html


But he never failed a test!

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