Pistorius charged with murder!

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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby DougG » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:38 pm

jgore wrote:What Holly said.:smile:


Thank you Jim & Holly. :D
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby Engmomma » Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:19 pm

DougG wrote:
jgore wrote:What Holly said.:smile:


Thank you Jim & Holly. :D


DougG I knew what you meant and yes I agree it was semantics. I just wanted it to be clear to others.
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby HCcD » Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:31 pm

erinmcd wrote:The plot thickens- steroids were allegedly found at his house.

Sadly, this will probably enrage people more than the death of the woman.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/others ... urder.html


Interesting to hear this and the Legal Team that he already have to represent him ... Also, now wondering if "Temporary Instanity" due to Alchohol and/or Drugs and/or Roid-Rage will be one of his defence claims used to argue "pre-meditated" / "first-degree" murder charges against him ??

In one of the articles, it indicated that he called his father and/his best friend on what he had done, and, I would assume his lawyer, and did not bother to contact 9-1-1 / EMS, and that it was his neighbours who called called the authorities ... :shock: :?

As well, in a previous article, one of his-Ex Girlfriend(s) was reported to have called the Police and charge him with "assault", but later dropped the charges against him .... if I recall ????
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby Double Bellybuster » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:09 pm

jonovision_man wrote:...once people decide someone is a "hero" it takes quite a lot for some to come to terms with the truth.


Agreed. I have been travelling quite a bit lately and listening to talk radio. I was listening the day Pistorius was arrested and for a half day no one could get off that it must have been a Valentine's Day surprise gone wrong. There have many cases in the opposite direction since then. One is the dude accused of the racial slur and slap of a child on a plane.

- The guy who appears to have had very very poor control on a flight was ruined as soon as the accusation from an upset parent hit the news.

- Pistorius had a dead body taken from his house but it must have been an illusion.
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby Double Bellybuster » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:42 am

Double Bellybuster wrote:
jonovision_man wrote:...once people decide someone is a "hero" it takes quite a lot for some to come to terms with the truth.


Agreed. I have been travelling quite a bit lately and listening to talk radio. I was listening the day Pistorius was arrested and for a half day no one could get off that it must have been a Valentine's Day surprise gone wrong. There have many cases in the opposite direction since then. One is the dude accused of the racial slur and slap of a child on a plane.

- The guy who appears to have had very very poor control on a flight was ruined as soon as the accusation from an upset parent hit the news.

- Pistorius had a dead body taken from his house but it must have been an illusion.


The "hero" who knows he is beloved is further dangerous - See Lance ruining many or Rogers Clemens ruining Brian McNamee.
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby La » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:44 am

I think it's natural for people to give hero status to people who have overcome odds or adversity to achieve greatness in some area. And once we've done that, it's hard to let go and accept that the person is, actually, human and fallible (and not always very nice - we tend to equate overcoming odds with being a "nice" person, and that's not always the case).

What I believe is that WE don't want to think that our heroes have done bad things because it makes US "wrong" for having idolized them in the first place. In my case, it started with OJ (not that I idolized him, but generally liked him as a player and personality at the time), then Lance. What I'm feeling is really not "about" them, it's more about me.
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby HCcD » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:01 am

Apparently, his defence is that ....


Having had previous death threats, Pistorius said he slept with a 9-mm pistol under his bed in his plush Pretoria home in the heart of a well-secured gated community.

He and Steenkamp went to sleep on Wednesday night - the eve of Valentine’s Day - shortly after 10 p.m., he said.

However, in the middle of the night, he awoke in pitch darkness and thought an intruder had climbed through the window of his bathroom, Pistorius said.

He climbed out of bed without putting on his prosthetic legs and went towards the closed bathroom door, not realizing Steenkamp was behind it, he said. He then fired several shots into the door, before shouting to Steenkamp to call the police.

Realizing she was not in bed, he grabbed a cricket bat to beat down the bathroom door and found her slumped on the floor.



http://www.torontosun.com/2013/02/19/blade-runner-pistorius-shot-girlfriend-through-door-prosecutor
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Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby turd ferguson » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:29 am

La wrote:I think it's natural for people to give hero status to people who have overcome odds or adversity to achieve greatness in some area. And once we've done that, it's hard to let go and accept that the person is, actually, human and fallible (and not always very nice - we tend to equate overcoming odds with being a "nice" person, and that's not always the case).

What I believe is that WE don't want to think that our heroes have done bad things because it makes US "wrong" for having idolized them in the first place. In my case, it started with OJ (not that I idolized him, but generally liked him as a player and personality at the time), then Lance. What I'm feeling is really not "about" them, it's more about me.


I hear you on all that but take the complete opposite view.

I guess I assume that elite sports is so competitive, the drive it takes to be the best of the best, means that most I the people who succeed are deep down jerks. In the same way it's been postulated that many CEOs are sociopaths.

As Green Day said, Nice Guys Finish Last.

Of all the lance allegations, the only one that never bothered me was that he was an arrogant, entitled, jerk. I would have assumed that from all the winning.

I distinguish between sports heroes and real heroes. An A-hole who can throw a ball isn't a hero, and we shouldn't be surprised when he turns out to be an A-hole.
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby jonovision_man » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:44 am

HCcD wrote:Apparently, his defence is that ....


Having had previous death threats, Pistorius said he slept with a 9-mm pistol under his bed in his plush Pretoria home in the heart of a well-secured gated community.

He and Steenkamp went to sleep on Wednesday night - the eve of Valentine’s Day - shortly after 10 p.m., he said.

However, in the middle of the night, he awoke in pitch darkness and thought an intruder had climbed through the window of his bathroom, Pistorius said.

He climbed out of bed without putting on his prosthetic legs and went towards the closed bathroom door, not realizing Steenkamp was behind it, he said. He then fired several shots into the door, before shouting to Steenkamp to call the police.

Realizing she was not in bed, he grabbed a cricket bat to beat down the bathroom door and found her slumped on the floor.



http://www.torontosun.com/2013/02/19/blade-runner-pistorius-shot-girlfriend-through-door-prosecutor


That's a pretty lousy defence, even if it's true.

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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby HCcD » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:12 am

jonovision_man wrote:
HCcD wrote:Apparently, his defence is that ....


Having had previous death threats, Pistorius said he slept with a 9-mm pistol under his bed in his plush Pretoria home in the heart of a well-secured gated community.

He and Steenkamp went to sleep on Wednesday night - the eve of Valentine’s Day - shortly after 10 p.m., he said.

However, in the middle of the night, he awoke in pitch darkness and thought an intruder had climbed through the window of his bathroom, Pistorius said.

He climbed out of bed without putting on his prosthetic legs and went towards the closed bathroom door, not realizing Steenkamp was behind it, he said. He then fired several shots into the door, before shouting to Steenkamp to call the police.

Realizing she was not in bed, he grabbed a cricket bat to beat down the bathroom door and found her slumped on the floor.



http://www.torontosun.com/2013/02/19/blade-runner-pistorius-shot-girlfriend-through-door-prosecutor


That's a pretty lousy defence, even if it's true.

jono


As someone once said, "He doesn't have a leg to stand on..." with that defence ... :shifty:
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby CAW » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:19 am

turd ferguson wrote:
La wrote:I think it's natural for people to give hero status to people who have overcome odds or adversity to achieve greatness in some area. And once we've done that, it's hard to let go and accept that the person is, actually, human and fallible (and not always very nice - we tend to equate overcoming odds with being a "nice" person, and that's not always the case).

What I believe is that WE don't want to think that our heroes have done bad things because it makes US "wrong" for having idolized them in the first place. In my case, it started with OJ (not that I idolized him, but generally liked him as a player and personality at the time), then Lance. What I'm feeling is really not "about" them, it's more about me.


I hear you on all that but take the complete opposite view.

I guess I assume that elite sports is so competitive, the drive it takes to be the best of the best, means that most I the people who succeed are deep down jerks. In the same way it's been postulated that many CEOs are sociopaths.

As Green Day said, Nice Guys Finish Last.

Of all the lance allegations, the only one that never bothered me was that he was an arrogant, entitled, jerk. I would have assumed that from all the winning.

I distinguish between sports heroes and real heroes. An A-hole who can throw a ball isn't a hero, and we shouldn't be surprised when he turns out to be an A-hole.


exactly!

Is anyone surprised that either of the Williams sisters throw a snit fit when they lose a tennis match? No.

So why, then, are we surprised when other "nastiness" is revealed about other elite athletes?
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Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby Jwolf » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:02 am

It's one thing to be upset in a competition - it's another thing to be a jerk to other people in your life.

I don't think it's a prerequisite for elite competitive athletes to be jerks. There are plenty that aren't- we just don't hear about them. Just like there are plenty of successful actors and actresses that don't sleep around and politicians the aren't involved in sex scandals. They just don't make the news.
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby La » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:04 am

CAW wrote:
turd ferguson wrote:
La wrote:I think it's natural for people to give hero status to people who have overcome odds or adversity to achieve greatness in some area. And once we've done that, it's hard to let go and accept that the person is, actually, human and fallible (and not always very nice - we tend to equate overcoming odds with being a "nice" person, and that's not always the case).

What I believe is that WE don't want to think that our heroes have done bad things because it makes US "wrong" for having idolized them in the first place. In my case, it started with OJ (not that I idolized him, but generally liked him as a player and personality at the time), then Lance. What I'm feeling is really not "about" them, it's more about me.


I hear you on all that but take the complete opposite view.

I guess I assume that elite sports is so competitive, the drive it takes to be the best of the best, means that most I the people who succeed are deep down jerks. In the same way it's been postulated that many CEOs are sociopaths.

As Green Day said, Nice Guys Finish Last.

Of all the lance allegations, the only one that never bothered me was that he was an arrogant, entitled, jerk. I would have assumed that from all the winning.

I distinguish between sports heroes and real heroes. An A-hole who can throw a ball isn't a hero, and we shouldn't be surprised when he turns out to be an A-hole.


exactly!

Is anyone surprised that either of the Williams sisters throw a snit fit when they lose a tennis match? No.

So why, then, are we surprised when other "nastiness" is revealed about other elite athletes?

I guess what I mean is the "hero" label being applied to people who overcame greater-than-usual odds to reach the elite level. And the media certainly do a good job of sucking us into only seeing the good side of those folks to start.
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby ian » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:20 am

CAW wrote:Is anyone surprised that either of the Williams sisters throw a snit fit when they lose a tennis match? No.

For the record, it's only one of the sisters (Serena) that has a history of poor sportsmanship. The other one (Venus) is widely regarded as a complete class act. Ditto for their parents: the father tends to be a well-meaning boor while the mother has a wonderful sense of humanity and perspective.

From my perspective, there's a lot of truth both to what Lesley and Mike wrote. I'm in the middle somewhere. There are dozens of athletes that, time and time again, have conducted themselves with the utmost class, and as such, I find them easy to root for. I'm also open-minded enough to recognize that I can't know everything about another person (be they an athlete, a co-worker, a neighbor, etc.) and that my impressions can and will change in the future based on events or information that I don't know right now.

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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby La » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:22 am

ian wrote:
CAW wrote:Is anyone surprised that either of the Williams sisters throw a snit fit when they lose a tennis match? No.

For the record, it's only one of the sisters (Serena) that has a history of poor sportsmanship. The other one (Venus) is widely regarded as a complete class act. Ditto for their parents: the father tends to be a well-meaning boor while the mother has a wonderful sense of humanity and perspective.

From my perspective, there's a lot of truth both to what Lesley and Mike wrote. I'm in the middle somewhere. There are dozens of athletes that, time and time again, have conducted themselves with the utmost class, and as such, I find them easy to root for. I'm also open-minded enough to recognize that I can't know everything about another person (be they an athlete, a co-worker, a neighbor, etc.) and that my impressions can and will change in the future based on events or information that I don't know right now.

Wise as always, ian.
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby CAW » Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:17 pm

La wrote:
ian wrote:
CAW wrote:Is anyone surprised that either of the Williams sisters throw a snit fit when they lose a tennis match? No.

For the record, it's only one of the sisters (Serena) that has a history of poor sportsmanship. The other one (Venus) is widely regarded as a complete class act. Ditto for their parents: the father tends to be a well-meaning boor while the mother has a wonderful sense of humanity and perspective.

From my perspective, there's a lot of truth both to what Lesley and Mike wrote. I'm in the middle somewhere. There are dozens of athletes that, time and time again, have conducted themselves with the utmost class, and as such, I find them easy to root for. I'm also open-minded enough to recognize that I can't know everything about another person (be they an athlete, a co-worker, a neighbor, etc.) and that my impressions can and will change in the future based on events or information that I don't know right now.

Wise as always, ian.


I agree.
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby QuickChick » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:13 pm

Interesting piece in the Star today: Why Oscar Pistorius will likely get off.
What do you think? I can't imagine living in a country that is under such paranoia all the time, so I'm not sure I buy it. The case will surely be interesting, though. Does anyone have firsthand knowledge of what it's like to live in South Africa?
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby drghfx » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:56 pm

Yeah, someone broke into Pistorius' house to rob and kill him and his girlfriend, but first he went into the bathroom for a quick dump and maybe read the paper. Of course I would never possibly think that it was my girlfriend in my bathroom so I would pump 4 bullets in the door before I asked who was in there. I suppose when you are caught, you have to grasp at whatever straws you can reach. I wonder how his defense team will try to explain why his girlfriend was in the bathroom with the lights off and did't turn on the lights to go to the bathroom either?
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Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby Jwolf » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:13 pm

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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby drghfx » Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:32 am

"A true conservationist is a man who knows that the world is not given by his fathers but borrowed from his children." - John James Audubon

"The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world that it leaves to its children." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby Tisha » Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:08 pm


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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby Tisha » Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:09 pm

QuickChick wrote:Interesting piece in the Star today: Why Oscar Pistorius will likely get off.
What do you think? I can't imagine living in a country that is under such paranoia all the time, so I'm not sure I buy it. The case will surely be interesting, though. Does anyone have firsthand knowledge of what it's like to live in South Africa?

Huh, the article has been removed.

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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby jonovision_man » Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:33 pm

Tisha wrote:
QuickChick wrote:Interesting piece in the Star today: Why Oscar Pistorius will likely get off.
What do you think? I can't imagine living in a country that is under such paranoia all the time, so I'm not sure I buy it. The case will surely be interesting, though. Does anyone have firsthand knowledge of what it's like to live in South Africa?

Huh, the article has been removed.


Still there, just link changed:
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/ ... kelly.html

His version of events:
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/ ... vents.html

I am not convinced he could have thought with any kind of certainty that there was a burglar behind that door. And you'd also have to believe that he shouted at the "burglar" but his girlfriend who was actually behind the door chose not to respond. If my significant other was yelling to me outside the bathroom door that there was a burglar in the house, I'm pretty sure I'd yell something back!

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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby Jwolf » Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:45 pm

There was an interesting piece in today's Globe, written by a Canadian journalist who lives in So. Africa, who says that the media depiction of the culture of fear in So. Africa is overblown.

The South Africa being described in court is not the country I know

Already some foreign observers are assuming that volleys of gunshots are just a normal part of life in this country, and that Mr. Pistorius reacted like any typical South African to the fear of crime. It’s an assumption that’s tempting but wrong.

Of course most middle-class South Africans take plenty of precautions against crime. Security alarms, barred windows and doors, high walls, electric fences and motion detectors are all popular. Yet even in the most dangerous cities, gun-wielding paranoia is not nearly as common as outsiders believe.

I’ve lived in Johannesburg, the most crime-ridden city in South Africa, for the past four years. I have dozens of friends in the city, and some have been victims of home invasions or burglaries, but none keeps a gun under the bed, let alone feels any desire to blast bullets through doors at the slightest sound.

Studies suggest that 12 per cent of South Africans own guns. It’s a relatively high percentage by global standards. But it still means that the vast majority of South Africans prefer not to have guns in their houses – mostly for safety reasons, since they realize how often guns can be stolen, misused, or accidentally fired.

....

[Continues]
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Re: Pistorius charged with murder!

Postby HCcD » Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:28 pm

OOOooopps , apparently it may have just been herbal supplements and not steroids and/or drugs found in the house ... A possible faux pas by the Prosecutor/Police, perhaps leading the way for "doubt" in the handling of evidence and information being released to the media ?? :?: :help: :?

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