Pistorius charged with murder!

[QuickChick]

There was an interesting piece in today's Globe, written by a Canadian journalist who lives in So. Africa, who says that the media depiction of the culture of fear in So. Africa is overblown.

The South Africa being described in court is not the country I know

Interesting- a very different perspective. One that, IMO, is less surprising than the Star article. I think the point that really stands out is that he meant to kill whoever was in that bathroom. Whether he actually thought it was a burglar is the sticky point (but I have my opinions).

[La]

And now murder charges re-surface against the lead detective/investigator:
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/ ... urder.html

Weird.

[HCcD]

There was an interesting piece in today's Globe, written by a Canadian journalist who lives in So. Africa, who says that the media depiction of the culture of fear in So. Africa is overblown.

The South Africa being described in court is not the country I know

Interesting- a very different perspective. One that, IMO, is less surprising than the Star article. I think the point that really stands out is that he meant to kill whoever was in that bathroom. Whether he actually thought it was a burglar is the sticky point (but I have my opinions).

True, perhaps ... but, how does an "apparently" burgular, locked in your washroom, considered to be a pereceived threat to you? Considering you have a 9mm pistol aimed at the door to a "small" bathroom, and a machine gun close by ?

Having said that ... also, read in the newspaper this morning that the Dectective walked through the crime scene without wearing proper gloves and may have contaminated evidence, as a result and may have lost some key evidence like the bullet and other stuff ... Along with the false steroid/drug allegations, etc ... are they purposely attempting to get the charges thrown out of court ???

[jonovision_man]

And now murder charges re-surface against the lead detective/investigator:
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/ ... urder.html

Weird.

You brought up OJ earlier - the parralel is becoming even more apt. Even though he did it, the cops bungled the case and he got off. Seems like the South African cops and prosecutor are cut from a similar cloth...

jono

[HCcD]

Interesting visual on his "defence" by the Prosecutor .... http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/02/20/graphic-in-his-own-words-how-oscar-pistorius-killed-reeva-steenkamp/

[drghfx]

...and he did this while it was pitch black...while neither his girlfriend going to the bathroom or him going to the window or coming back in, turned on any lights.

The good news for him is that it appears the Keystone Cops investigated the incident. Talk about winning the lottery!

[carm]

CBC breaking news says that he got bail.

[HCcD]

CBC breaking news says that he got bail.

Really had no choice ... One the of arguments was that he was too famous / known, to attemp/risk of fleeing bail ...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2282715/Oscar-Pistorius-granted-bail-despite-Reeva-Steenkamp-murder-charge.html

And, here is his version in graphic form ....

[HCcD]

Also ...

Magistrate Nair set bail at 1 million rand, about $112,000, and ordered a series of conditions before the case was adjourned to June 4. Mr. Pistorius was told to relinquish firearms and passports, avoid his home and make no contact with witnesses. He was also told that he could not leave the Pretoria area without official permission and could not use drugs or alcohol while the trial is pending.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/23/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-bail-hearing.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

[turd ferguson]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/burgla ... w-p,31393/

[HCcD]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/burglar-hiding-in-pistorius-bathroom-figures-now-p,31393/

[turd ferguson]

Also ...

Magistrate Nair set bail at 1 million rand, about $112,000, and ordered a series of conditions before the case was adjourned to June 4. Mr. Pistorius was told to relinquish firearms and passports, avoid his home and make no contact with witnesses. He was also told that he could not leave the Pretoria area without official permission and could not use drugs or alcohol while the trial is pending.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/23/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-bail-hearing.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

Does he have to wear an ankle monitor?

[jonovision_man]

Does he have to wear an ankle monitor?

[Spirit Unleashed]

I didn't even realize what Mike was trying to say, until I see Jono's picture.

[turd ferguson]

I didn't even realize what Mike was trying to say, until I see Jono's picture.

I'm frequently accused of being too subtle.

[HCcD]

Another strange storyline to the Pistorius Family ....

Oscar Pistorius's brother faces culpable homicide charge
Carl Pistorius allegedly involved in deadly crash with female motorcyclist

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/02/24/oscar-pistorius-brother-homicide-charge.html?autoplay=true

[La]

His trial started today.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/oscar-pist ... -1.2557407

[Dr. S]

Heard that on the radio this morning, not sure what to think about all of this.

[jonovision_man]

Everyone's likely heard the news but figured the outcome was an important bookend to the thread...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-29149581

South African athlete Oscar Pistorius has been found guilty of culpable homicide after the judge found he killed his girlfriend by mistake.

Lucky boy... although we'll see how much time he gets, if any.

jono

[marymac442]

Everyone's likely heard the news but figured the outcome was an important bookend to the thread...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-29149581

South African athlete Oscar Pistorius has been found guilty of culpable homicide after the judge found he killed his girlfriend by mistake.

Lucky boy... although we'll see how much time he gets, if any.

jono

And once again, I get all my news from RunningMania

[Jwolf]

Interesting analysis and comparison to another murder case in South Africa:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... d/follows/

... Few people were surprised that he was acquitted of premeditated murder, the toughest charge against him. Judge Masipa rapidly demolished the testimony of neighbours who thought they heard a woman’s screams on the night of the shooting. She found no evidence that Mr. Pistorius deliberately intended to kill Ms. Steenkamp after an argument or fight. But she could still have convicted him of unplanned murder, and she refused to do that.

In both ... cases, the murder charges hinged on the concept of dolus eventualis – a form of murder in which the defendants can foresee that their reckless conduct would lead to someone’s death. Even if Mr. Pistorius thought an intruder was inside the bathroom, as he has claimed, the prosecutors said he still must have foreseen that the person behind the door would be killed by the four hollow-point bullets that he fired into the door at close range....

[turd ferguson]

Interesting analysis and comparison to another murder case in South Africa:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... d/follows/

... Few people were surprised that he was acquitted of premeditated murder, the toughest charge against him. Judge Masipa rapidly demolished the testimony of neighbours who thought they heard a woman’s screams on the night of the shooting. She found no evidence that Mr. Pistorius deliberately intended to kill Ms. Steenkamp after an argument or fight. But she could still have convicted him of unplanned murder, and she refused to do that.

In both ... cases, the murder charges hinged on the concept of dolus eventualis – a form of murder in which the defendants can foresee that their reckless conduct would lead to someone’s death. Even if Mr. Pistorius thought an intruder was inside the bathroom, as he has claimed, the prosecutors said he still must have foreseen that the person behind the door would be killed by the four hollow-point bullets that he fired into the door at close range....

Interesting. It sounds like dolus eventualis is closest to our second degree murder.

"Judge Masipa rejected this argument. “The evidence failed to prove that the accused had intention,” she said in her verdict. “Clearly he did not objectively foresee that he would kill the person behind the door.”

As unbelievable as this sounds, this is very hard to appeal. Its contrary to common sense and the G&M article quotes a SA legal expert to the effect that its extremely unlikely, but findings like this are virtually unappealable.

[jonovision_man]

"Judge Masipa rejected this argument. “The evidence failed to prove that the accused had intention,” she said in her verdict. “Clearly he did not objectively foresee that he would kill the person behind the door.”

As unbelievable as this sounds, this is very hard to appeal. Its contrary to common sense and the G&M article quotes a SA legal expert to the effect that its extremely unlikely, but findings like this are virtually unappealable.

The bottom line is if you're going to murder someone, do it in South Africa... "hey could you stand behind this door for a sec?"

jono

[Robinandamelia]

As one expert commented on one of the shows last night, if you aim a gun at a closed door and fire off four bullets, you intend to kill someone.... Should be what we would call 2nd degree murder at a minimum, don't agree with what amounts to a manslaughter charge at all...and he'll probably walk.

[Jwolf]

The G&M talks about another high profile case against a rapper named Jub Jub who got the second degree murder charge for killing people with a car.

In that case there were multiple deaths, but it makes the ruling against Pistiorius even more hard to believe.