Vancouver Sun Run competitors stripped of their medals

[Jwolf]

Well-said, Michael. I'm assuming Gordon was not primarily self-interested here and really was concerned on principle. She didn't immediately assume the age-group winner was cheating-- it's just you usually recognize the names of the fast local people. When she didn't, she looked her up, curious about who she was -- a few clicks on the internet and then the inconsistencies became obvious. Perhaps the video analysis went a bit far, but I don't think Gordon should be the bad guy here. Looking someone up on athlinks doesn't make you an "age-group cyber-stalker".

I don't know if the course has changed in the decade or two since I ran it, but you had to know the route to shorten it up greatly.

Course has been the same for at least the last 12 years.

You would have to know the route well to cut it short as she did. Some people walk/jog slow and cut it REALLY short by not crossing either bridge; they don't finish in 35-40 minutes, though. She likely knew what she was doing and what time she needed to get an age-group award.

[ian]

I don't see how Boston enters into it

This point is worth clarifying. I was referring to the media coverage of runners over the past week and a bit. Overwhelmingly, it portrayed runners as a dedicated, supportive, and optimistic group of people who come from all walks of life. A group that we'd all be proud to belong to. Contrast that to these stories coming out of the Sun Run, where some might get the impression that runners are a competitive and narcissistic bunch who are suspicious of outsiders. I suppose the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

perhaps she went a bit far in finding the video evidence, but I don't think it's fair to be calling HER the bad guy here.

I think this is the root of my concern: while it's one thing to do a quick Google search of an unfamiliar name, going frame-by-frame through some race footage as if it's the Zapruder film is WAY beyond "If you see someone doing wrong, turn 'em in". I'm glad that a cheater is now out of the game and I wouldn't go so far as to call the informant "the bad guy", but I'm just not comfortable with this ends-justifying-the-means approach to justice, as it's a really slippery slope.

[MrBond]

Lifetime ban from the event:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... thebandits

[HCcD]

Lifetime ban from the event:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... thebandits

If she had cheated all these previous years, wondering if the RD will go back and strip her of the previous AG placements, and DQ from the race results ??

[La]

I don't see how Boston enters into it, and to be honest I can't understand why so many people are so remarkably moved by this one incident of violence in a world so rife with violence. I feel equally sorry for victims and families of victims of violence anywhere in the world: the fact I've stood where it happened doesn't enter into my equation. I expect that may bother folks, but I don't see why.

I undertand why people took it so personally: because it was in a place that many of us have stood (literally and figuratively) we can relate, we can put ourselves in the runners' and spectators' positions. When violence or tragedy happens in parts of the world that we don't have any experience with, it's harder for us to relate on a personal level. When it happens somewhere we've been, or in a context we're familiar with, or know people who live there (or are there at the time), events take on a whole new personal dimension for us. I think that's pretty normal.

I don't see how Boston enters into it

This point is worth clarifying. I was referring to the media coverage of runners over the past week and a bit. Overwhelmingly, it portrayed runners as a dedicated, supportive, and optimistic group of people who come from all walks of life. A group that we'd all be proud to belong to. Contrast that to these stories coming out of the Sun Run, where some might get the impression that runners are a competitive and narcissistic bunch who are suspicious of outsiders. I suppose the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

I understood what you meant. Rather than falling in the middle, I'd say that the truth lies along the entire length of the continuum.

[purdy65]

I'm thinking I probably would have done the same thing as Susan Gordon. Maybe not because I suspected cheating to begin necessarily, but more out of curiosity. Once I suspected cheating, I definitely would either have raised the question with the organizers - so I guess I would have outed her too.

Boston - well.

I have not stood in the streets of Iraq or Afghanistan or any of the other scenes of terrible violence. I have stood at the finish line at the Boston Marathon, where the atmosphere is very unguarded and happy (sadly unlike many of the aforementioned places). It hit close to home for me. YMMV. I will say, however, that it time for CNN to move on.

[AjaxRunner]

I would have done the same as well. If I came in fourth, I would look up who came in ahead of me, and I would look up what kind of progression they have made over the years. Mostly to see if I can see myself on that same progression. If I would have encounteerd the same inconsistencies, I would have kept digging as well. Maybe I am shallow.

Boston Marathon. Haven't made it to the Boston Marathon. What hit me was the ltitle boy and his family. To a large extent, that is my family. Those are pretty much the exact ages and genders of my youngest two. I would love to have them at the finish line of the Boston Marathon, waiting to cheer me on. Yes it hit close to home. That doesn't negate how I feel about other victems of violence, just means I can very much relate to this particular case.

[Jogger Barbie]

I don't see how Boston enters into it, and to be honest I can't understand why so many people are so remarkably moved by this one incident of violence in a world so rife with violence. I feel equally sorry for victims and families of victims of violence anywhere in the world: the fact I've stood where it happened doesn't enter into my equation. I expect that may bother folks, but I don't see why.

I undertand why people took it so personally: because it was in a place that many of us have stood (literally and figuratively) we can relate, we can put ourselves in the runners' and spectators' positions. When violence or tragedy happens in parts of the world that we don't have any experience with, it's harder for us to relate on a personal level. When it happens somewhere we've been, or in a context we're familiar with, or know people who live there (or are there at the time), events take on a whole new personal dimension for us. I think that's pretty normal.

What La said.

If I heard about bombs at the finish line of any race of any distance, I would be shocked and horrified, feel sadness for the people who were hurt or killed, lost loved ones, etc. But to have something like this happen at a race that I have done, that so many people I know have done, at a finish line that I can picture, would (and does) make it worse. Add to that the Boston Marathon's iconic status, and the emotions expand greatly. Since running the race for the first time in 2008, I have thought of it as "the most beautiful finish line in the world", and that first sight has been special all three times I've been lucky enough to be there. Each time for a different reason but equally special. There are T-shirts that say "Right on Hereford, left on Boylston". That last turn is one of the most-photographed points. I don't personally know of any other 600 m stretch of a race that is so well known.

One of my reactions in the days after the bombings was anger on behalf of the people who turned that corner and didn't get to finish, basically ran right into the heart of the explosions. What a horrible, horrible sight and experience that must have been. I can barely begin to imagine. And I also felt angry on behalf of the people who didn't get that chance. Yes, in the grand scheme of life, not finishing a race is trivial compared to being injured or killed. But that doesn't mean it counts for nothing at all. (I realise no one said anything about it "not counting"; those are my own thoughts.)

[mas_runner]

I can see both sides of the argument here. It's cheating, reporting them puts a stop to that, but a global naming and shaming takes it just a stretch too far.

Reminds me of Blackadder.

Blackadder: "Perhaps Lord Melchet would like me whipped through the streets of Aberdeen?"

Melchet: "No no, we needed go that far...."

Melchet: "...Aylesbury is far enough"

[Stampie]

I would have done the same as well. If I came in fourth, I would look up who came in ahead of me, and I would look up what kind of progression they have made over the years. Mostly to see if I can see myself on that same progression. If I would have encounteerd the same inconsistencies, I would have kept digging as well. Maybe I am shallow.

Shallow?
Maybe, but I think it`s human nature to compare ourselves to others and see how we can better improve ourselves. Having said that, I think I would have done the same thing as well. I would intend to do what I said earlier and then as I see a thread dangling in front of me (inconsistencies), I would likely pull it and see where it goes from there.

[HCcD]

I can see both sides of the argument here. It's cheating, reporting them puts a stop to that, but a global naming and shaming takes it just a stretch too far.

No different than with the whole Jean's Marines fiasco a few years back, in that they cut about 4-5 miles off of the MCM course, or is it ??

[Jwolf]

I can see both sides of the argument here. It's cheating, reporting them puts a stop to that, but a global naming and shaming takes it just a stretch too far.

Well, they had no trouble publicly accepting their awards in front of thousands of people.

The media does its thing- perhaps out of control at times but that's our world now.

[Robinandamelia]

Boston Marathon. Haven't made it to the Boston Marathon. What hit me was the ltitle boy and his family. To a large extent, that is my family. Those are pretty much the exact ages and genders of my youngest two. I would love to have them at the finish line of the Boston Marathon, waiting to cheer me on. Yes it hit close to home. That doesn't negate how I feel about other victems of violence, just means I can very much relate to this particular case.

This is how I felt as well, my daughter was 8 when she stood there last year cheering me on in, in what is often, a very self indulgent activity. Never for a minute, would I have thought she wouldn't be safe. Like others have said, I think any event, when there's something in particular you can relate to, will affect you more than others. I was equally as horrified and sick (literally) with the Sandy Hook shootings in December for the very same reason....

[turd ferguson]

I can see both sides of the argument here. It's cheating, reporting them puts a stop to that, but a global naming and shaming takes it just a stretch too far.

Why?

I don't necessarily disagree with you, I just want to hear your logic.

Personally - I agree they needed to be disqualified and banned, but I don't think they needed this to be their first hit on google for the rest of their lives.

I guess the lesson is that if you're going to cheat at a race, don't cheat at a race owned by a newspaper.

[turd ferguson]

I don't see how Boston enters into it

This point is worth clarifying. I was referring to the media coverage of runners over the past week and a bit. Overwhelmingly, it portrayed runners as a dedicated, supportive, and optimistic group of people who come from all walks of life. A group that we'd all be proud to belong to. Contrast that to these stories coming out of the Sun Run, where some might get the impression that runners are a competitive and narcissistic bunch who are suspicious of outsiders. I suppose the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

No doubt - the truth is frequently whatever narrative the media wants to impose on the facts.

[Jwolf]

I don't see how Boston enters into it

This point is worth clarifying. I was referring to the media coverage of runners over the past week and a bit. Overwhelmingly, it portrayed runners as a dedicated, supportive, and optimistic group of people who come from all walks of life. A group that we'd all be proud to belong to. Contrast that to these stories coming out of the Sun Run, where some might get the impression that runners are a competitive and narcissistic bunch who are suspicious of outsiders. I suppose the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

No doubt - the truth is frequently whatever narrative the media wants to impose on the facts.

My impression of the general reaction locally in the running and non-running community is not "Look at those narcissistic runners only interested in their own success" but more like "How annoying that a couple of cheaters have to mar what is otherwise a great event."

[Stampie]

I don't see how Boston enters into it

This point is worth clarifying. I was referring to the media coverage of runners over the past week and a bit. Overwhelmingly, it portrayed runners as a dedicated, supportive, and optimistic group of people who come from all walks of life. A group that we'd all be proud to belong to. Contrast that to these stories coming out of the Sun Run, where some might get the impression that runners are a competitive and narcissistic bunch who are suspicious of outsiders. I suppose the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

No doubt - the truth is frequently whatever narrative the media wants to impose on the facts.

My impression of the general reaction locally in the running and non-running community is not "Look at those narcissistic runners only interested in their own success" but more like "How annoying that a couple of cheaters have to mar what is otherwise a great event."

If I may add to what Jennifer said, this is an event that is marketed more as a fun run, with focus on health & wellbeing rather than a key race per say. Yes there are elite runners at the race, but they start a good 10mins ahead of all the other participants. If you are looking to PR/PB this race, you’ll be hard pressed to do so, just base on the sheer volume of runners entered into the race. Google the Sun Run start picture and see what I mean. The crowds are massive!

[Jwolf]

I don't see how Boston enters into it

This point is worth clarifying. I was referring to the media coverage of runners over the past week and a bit. Overwhelmingly, it portrayed runners as a dedicated, supportive, and optimistic group of people who come from all walks of life. A group that we'd all be proud to belong to. Contrast that to these stories coming out of the Sun Run, where some might get the impression that runners are a competitive and narcissistic bunch who are suspicious of outsiders. I suppose the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

No doubt - the truth is frequently whatever narrative the media wants to impose on the facts.

My impression of the general reaction locally in the running and non-running community is not "Look at those narcissistic runners only interested in their own success" but more like "How annoying that a couple of cheaters have to mar what is otherwise a great event."

If I may add to what Jennifer said, this is an event that is marketed more as a fun run, with focus on health & wellbeing rather than a key race per say. Yes there are elite runners at the race, but they start a good 10mins ahead of all the other participants. If you are looking to PR/PB this race, you’ll be hard pressed to do so, just base on the sheer volume of runners entered into the race. Google the Sun Run start picture and see what I mean. The crowds are massive!

I don't see why this distinction has to be made. If anything, this would be an argument for not making a big deal about "cheaters."

The Sun Run is essentially a combination of a participation event PLUS a competitive race, like any big race including most marathons that we participate in.

As I said upthread, many people do treat the Sun Run as a competition, and awards are given out as such. Most of people finishing in the 35-40-minute time-frame are trying for their best times, and at least the female course-cutter knew this. It's pretty special to win an age-group award in this race; I wouldn't have a chance at my pace, although I have in several smaller races. It's also not true that you can't get your best time in the Sun Run if you start in one of the first waves, as all the runner on that video would have done.

[Mark.AU]

My two cents on the three themes we have going here;

I am glad the cheats are outed, don't have any sympathy for them re the media (the news cycle will turn soon enough and they'll be forgotten, even by google). I probably wouldn't have been bothered enough to do the sleuthing myself though, unless I was the person in second place.

I don't see anything wrong in trying to win, and being concerned with my placing, in trying to beat other people who are also racing. It's a race, I like winning, I'm competitive. If that makes me a lesser or shallower person in someone else's eyes, so be it, I don't care.

I total get Michael's point about the Boston bombing and completely agree with it. Actually, I'm most aligned with his post of all in this thread.

That's my input, carry on!

ETA: My 10k PB was set in the Sun Run

[turd ferguson]

I don't see how Boston enters into it

This point is worth clarifying. I was referring to the media coverage of runners over the past week and a bit. Overwhelmingly, it portrayed runners as a dedicated, supportive, and optimistic group of people who come from all walks of life. A group that we'd all be proud to belong to. Contrast that to these stories coming out of the Sun Run, where some might get the impression that runners are a competitive and narcissistic bunch who are suspicious of outsiders. I suppose the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

No doubt - the truth is frequently whatever narrative the media wants to impose on the facts.

My impression of the general reaction locally in the running and non-running community is not "Look at those narcissistic runners only interested in their own success" but more like "How annoying that a couple of cheaters have to mar what is otherwise a great event."

If I may add to what Jennifer said, this is an event that is marketed more as a fun run, with focus on health & wellbeing rather than a key race per say. Yes there are elite runners at the race, but they start a good 10mins ahead of all the other participants. If you are looking to PR/PB this race, you’ll be hard pressed to do so, just base on the sheer volume of runners entered into the race. Google the Sun Run start picture and see what I mean. The crowds are massive!

The fact that they market it as a fun run and the fact that its really busy doesn't excuse people from following the basic rules, like run the whole 10k.

We're not talking about running up and over the curb at a tight corner.

You play baseball - in a fun game you might not get hung up on the technicalities of the infield fly rule, but you don't get to run directly to second base either.

[turd ferguson]

I don't see anything wrong in trying to win, and being concerned with my placing, in trying to beat other people who are also racing. It's a race, I like winning, I'm competitive. If that makes me a lesser or shallower person in someone else's eyes, so be it, I don't care.

I agree completely.

Sometimes I'm out for a run in the woods and I pass a guy and he picks it up and I pick it up and the next thing you know we're racing. If that makes me a lesser or shallower person, same thing, I don't care.

As a wise man once said, "If winning is not important, then why keep score?"

[Stampie]

The fact that they market it as a fun run and the fact that its really busy doesn't excuse people from following the basic rules, like run the whole 10k.

We're not talking about running up and over the curb at a tight corner.

You play baseball - in a fun game you might not get hung up on the technicalities of the infield fly rule, but you don't get to run directly to second base either.

I totally agree with you there Mike. I’m realizing that I did not express myself correctly and my point may not have been put across very well. By no means am I discounting the fact that cheating is acceptable in this situation and how the race is marketed is irrelevant, I was trying add to the previous point.

I’m in full agreement of “run the whole 10K”. I should have shut up after I was adding to Jennifer’s comment. I agree that those that are trying to PR could do it, but for me, I might be hard pressed due to the volume of runners on course. It was more of my perspective than a generalization.