Running Mania

turd ferguson wrote:

ultraslacker wrote:

turd ferguson wrote:I'm 100% percent in favour of defending yourself but getting a weapon and no training seems like a giant mistake waiting to happen.

which is why we were talking about self defence classes above. ;)

Did I join the thread too late to agree?

lol no

I have to say that carrying a knife wouldn't make me feel any more comfortable if I were running in an area where I thought I might need it (even "just in case"). I prefer to avoid running in places where I'd feel vulnerable. I choose not to run at night alone in an unfamiliar area or on trails alone (unless they are very busy, like the Grouse Grind). That said, I know Vancouver well and don't mind walking in any of the sketchy areas alone, even at night.

I have taken self-defense courses but they didn't involve weapons.

I've taken self defense courses that didn't involve weapons. And Runner's World occasionally has articles about what you should do that doesn't involve weapons. Learn the stuff about how to get away without a weapon. You need to know that anyway.

Don't show up at a knife fight if you don't know how to use it, or have never practiced.

A bit of a disturbing thread. Any sharp edged weapon is potentially lethal regardless of size. Any sharp knife can sever a carotid artery or femoral artery, and a person will bleed out in seconds or minutes. If one is waving a knife around randomly as a deterrent it could as easily catch someone in those places as anywhere else. It would take a lot of training and composure to be sure to aim for the "not that bad" areas.

I've been in lots of situations where you can't help but pass a woman from behind somewhat closely (next to a busy road, or on a trail). If I ever got a knee to the groin or a whistle in my ear or something, I could chalk it up to "life happens, maybe I'd do the same thing...". But getting stabbed? Yikes, I hope not.

You make it sound like we're running with knife in hand, stabbing anyone who comes too close.

This knife is nicknamed "last resort" for a reason.

Habs4ever wrote:, but I'm now in my 50's and in my mind I think "who wants to attack an old lady".

not to scare you but predators (the human kind) look for people that they can overpower not necessarily who is "hot" So I don't think that mind set is necessarily a good one to have. It's not about sex for them it's about power.

Although I also protest at the "in my 50's and am an old lady" comment!

dgrant wrote:A bit of a disturbing thread. Any sharp edged weapon is potentially lethal regardless of size. Any sharp knife can sever a carotid artery or femoral artery, and a person will bleed out in seconds or minutes. If one is waving a knife around randomly as a deterrent it could as easily catch someone in those places as anywhere else. It would take a lot of training and composure to be sure to aim for the "not that bad" areas.

I've been in lots of situations where you can't help but pass a woman from behind somewhat closely (next to a busy road, or on a trail). If I ever got a knee to the groin or a whistle in my ear or something, I could chalk it up to "life happens, maybe I'd do the same thing...". But getting stabbed? Yikes, I hope not.

that's only because you are a man. I think any woman knows that fear of walking (or running) somewhere and having something not be right. Or you get that creepy feeling. It's not even women out running. You could be walking to the car after work or after shopping etc. Walking home from the convenience store. Walking home from the bus stop. I'm sure it's happened to many women at many times.

And I'm not saying that we should all be carrying knives and slashing them at anyone that walks too close. But the threat can be there and it is real. There are many things women need to be more aware of and personal safety is definitely one.

turd ferguson wrote:

NMG wrote: Or clowns. I hate clowns.

Exactly.

I'd be creeped out if there was a clown just randomly walking down the street too!

Samantha wrote:

dgrant wrote:A bit of a disturbing thread. Any sharp edged weapon is potentially lethal regardless of size. Any sharp knife can sever a carotid artery or femoral artery, and a person will bleed out in seconds or minutes. If one is waving a knife around randomly as a deterrent it could as easily catch someone in those places as anywhere else. It would take a lot of training and composure to be sure to aim for the "not that bad" areas.

I've been in lots of situations where you can't help but pass a woman from behind somewhat closely (next to a busy road, or on a trail). If I ever got a knee to the groin or a whistle in my ear or something, I could chalk it up to "life happens, maybe I'd do the same thing...". But getting stabbed? Yikes, I hope not.

that's only because you are a man. I think any woman knows that fear of walking (or running) somewhere and having something not be right. Or you get that creepy feeling. It's not even women out running. You could be walking to the car after work or after shopping etc. Walking home from the convenience store. Walking home from the bus stop. I'm sure it's happened to many women at many times.

And I'm not saying that we should all be carrying knives and slashing them at anyone that walks too close. But the threat can be there and it is real. There are many things women need to be more aware of and personal safety is definitely one.

What does Dave being a man have to do with anything?

Samantha wrote:

dgrant wrote:A bit of a disturbing thread. Any sharp edged weapon is potentially lethal regardless of size. Any sharp knife can sever a carotid artery or femoral artery, and a person will bleed out in seconds or minutes. If one is waving a knife around randomly as a deterrent it could as easily catch someone in those places as anywhere else. It would take a lot of training and composure to be sure to aim for the "not that bad" areas.

I've been in lots of situations where you can't help but pass a woman from behind somewhat closely (next to a busy road, or on a trail). If I ever got a knee to the groin or a whistle in my ear or something, I could chalk it up to "life happens, maybe I'd do the same thing...". But getting stabbed? Yikes, I hope not.

that's only because you are a man. I think any woman knows that fear of walking (or running) somewhere and having something not be right. Or you get that creepy feeling.

Which part is because I'm a man? I completely understand there are many reasons (including past traumas) why a woman would be apprehensive or have a bad feeling about being passed closely in the dark or in a confined space. Which is why I say I wouldn't be that put off if someone reacted mistakenly out of fear or an abundance of precaution. I'm just saying a knee to the nuts is one thing, an assault with a lethal implement is another. The repercussions of a misidentified situation in that case are pretty grave.

ultraslacker wrote:You make it sound like we're running with knife in hand, stabbing anyone who comes too close.

This knife is nicknamed "last resort" for a reason.

I'm sure I could be wrong, but for a knife to be effective don't you already have to have it in your hand or be able to access it/attack with it in a split second? In either of those scenarios, isn't it possible to lethally wound someone before the situation has been properly assessed?

Signed,
Passes women with headphones on trails... hopes not to get killed

Gotta say, if you guys become nervous about running near women because they may or may not be a danger to you, then maybe you will understand better how women live Every. Single. Day.

I think any healthy white male living in Canada would be hard pressed to identify with the inherent feeling of vulnerability that is built into a woman's limbic system--whether or not she has past trauma.

Every woman has a different comfort level. I know some who won't run trails alone even in well populated areas in the middle of the day. My personal threshold is much higher but the thought is always in the back of my mind. I'm inherently vulnerable because I'm a girl and not very big.

Would rather have the weapon and never need it than to need it and have no recourse.



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ultraslacker wrote:Gotta say, if you guys become nervous about running near women because they may or may not be a danger to you, then maybe you will understand better how women live Every. Single. Day.

I think you'd be pleasantly surprised by many people's ability to be sensitive toward things that don't directly affect them. Again, I'm not questioning the validity of anyone's feeling of apprehension or vigilance.

I don't think it's a male/female thing to be concerned about people arming themselves in public places.

The difference of opinion seems to be about the merits of carrying a weapon (even a tiny one) when running as a means of feeling safe. Not sure those differences are gender based, and does have that ring of the gun debate in the US and the slippery slope of escalation. I also worry that carrying knife would give a false sense of security. Clearly there are lot of things that should likely come before the weapon: taking self defence, picking running routes, staying alert, avoiding secluded areas at dusk, running with a buddy, not wearing headphones etc. While sadly women have greater risk, there are a number of steps we all can take as runners to feel safe about running.

Samantha wrote:

Habs4ever wrote:, but I'm now in my 50's and in my mind I think "who wants to attack an old lady".

not to scare you but predators (the human kind) look for people that they can overpower not necessarily who is "hot" So I don't think that mind set is necessarily a good one to have. It's not about sex for them it's about power.

Although I also protest at the "in my 50's and am an old lady" comment!

1. I AM hot
2. I will not live in fear
3. I didn't say I was an old lady, but I am a realist. I am little person with pure white hair. Peoples first impression is that I am a lot older than I really am. I'm OK with that. I think my chances of being attacked are a lot less than a younger woman because of that. (I'm specifically talking about while I'm out running). Coming out of a shopping mall with a huge purse stuffed with $$ might be a different story, but again, I will not live in fear of what might happen.

I do not think that anyone here advocates randomly stabbing anyone who happens to run by us and possibly startle us.

It is about being aware of your surroundings and being able to take care of yourself.

In Holly's case that includes against wild animals.

You do not need to have a weapon out in your hand at all times to defend yourself - you just need to know how to use it responsibly when and if the time comes.

I would feel less comfortable carrying something to defend myself. I can't picture myself accessing anything in time to react to someone/thing wanting to do me harm.

I try to run in well populated and well lit areas. I tell DH where I'm going, and he knows approximately when I'll be home. I bring my dog if possible, but that's mostly because he needs the exercise, too. I can't allow myself to live in fear, so I place myself in situations where I feel safe when I am running alone. To me, the knife or bear spray wouldn't make me feel more safe or more confident.

I also live in a family neighbourhood, in a major City, where I know several neighbours and run by their houses on my regular route. I'm not running trails, or country roads, or secluded areas.

Samantha wrote:

turd ferguson wrote:

NMG wrote: Or clowns. I hate clowns.

Exactly.

I'd be creeped out if there was a clown just randomly walking down the street too!

I can't watch the US Republican debate for that reason.

Very interesting discussion. I run in a safe neighborhood but a while back I read this article about woman runner who was brutally attacked close to her house in broad day light and so this can happen anytime and anywhere. I think dog or bear spray is a good idea ...as well as a self defence course.