Just in Time for Boston--There are cheaters in your midst!!

[Dstew]

I don't care. It doesn't affect me personally and not a single person in the world was affected by this.

Except the person whose spot she took in Boston.

This happened prior to the new rules.

All I can say is that I am now truly grateful that I qualified when I did. If you ran a race before the registration opened and that would have been in July, the second your crossed the line and saw your time on the big clock, you knew we were going to run Boston if you were ready to register in September. I had air line tickets and a hotel booked by August. But now ... where is the cut off?

And there was the odd case of cheating back then but it was not a huge deal. A handful of cheaters compared to the close to 20,000 who were there legitimately was irrelevant and almost a non story. But the fall out of such "audits" or as I prefer to call them, self appointed on line vigilantes who have no accountability full of self righteous indignation, in order to call out 10 runners who are alleged to have cut the course short, they are putting a black cloud, the air of suspicion over thousands of runners who followed the rules. Here is a time when all of the hard work the blood sweat and tears is rewarded and so why not relax and enjoy the race and everything connected to it. Where there should only be the glow of accomplishment and achievement and yet as shown here by two people, the thought is that they are on the red flag list and thought go to hoping that their other results prove their innocence. When I crossed the line, I was smiling ear to ear. I had a great experience, I got my medal and could proudly wear my jacket. Now, I would have had the same thoughts that my finish time was 21 minutes slower then my qualifying time so I will be subject to further review. All of this for 10 people that are alleged to have cut the race short.

If you have a person who used someone else to qualify and there is very clear photographic evidence that would be accepted in a court of law - different gender, 20 year old and the "qualifier" is 50, etc I get why someone should go after them. But as per above, to throw doubt over thousands to maybe catch 10 is not worth the price in my opinion. I suspect the BAA would like the vigilantes to quietly go away because this is a story that indirectly taints the Boston Marathon. They proudly announce they caught 47 and may be able to catch many more cannot good for the image of the Boston Marathon.

End of Rant.

[turd ferguson]

I don't care. It doesn't affect me personally and not a single person in the world was affected by this.

Except the person whose spot she took in Boston.

This happened prior to the new rules.

Even before the new rules, Boston did fill up. So she likely did take someone's spot who tried to register later.

And it affects all of us who care at all about the integrity of race times.

It doesn't affect me in the slightest.

[Pat Menzies]

I don't care. It doesn't affect me personally and not a single person in the world was affected by this.

Except the person whose spot she took in Boston.

This happened prior to the new rules.

Even before the new rules, Boston did fill up. So she likely did take someone's spot who tried to register later.

And it affects all of us who care at all about the integrity of race times.

It doesn't affect me in the slightest.

One could say that about almost anything.

[canalrunner]

It's not on my A list of atrocities or concerns, but it does impact someone. What you see depends on where you sit.

Perhaps the BAA could help things by allowing qualified runners who have registered to sell their bibs back to the other runners who have qualified. This would at least reduce the numbers running with someone's bib. What is normal attrition between September and April because of injury etc.. 5 to 10%? At least someone who is qualified would get to run. If I had qualified and paid for Boston and got injured, would I eat the cost of the bib (what is fee now $300) or let someone else run with the bib. Like to think I knew the answer. Glad I haven't had to answer the question.

[ian]

Perhaps the BAA could help things by allowing qualified runners who have registered to sell their bibs back to the other runners who have qualified. This would at least reduce the numbers running with someone's bib. What is normal attrition between September and April because of injury etc.. 5 to 10%? At least someone who is qualified would get to run. If I had qualified and paid for Boston and got injured, would I eat the cost of the bib (what is fee now $300) or let someone else run with the bib. Like to think I knew the answer. Glad I haven't had to answer the question.

This raises a slightly different point: to what extent is cheating enabled or abetted by others? Some thoughts...
(1) Official bib transfers are a welcome addition to those races that are willing to add the work of the process. On the other hand, the seller would still stand to get a higher fee for an illegal transfer to an unqualified runner than for an official transfer to a qualified runner. It's only the specific prices that would change.
(2) A 10% attrition rate sounds about right but let's make sure that we don't think that official bib transfers would increase the number of runners that are able to participate in the race. Major marathons set their registration caps with an attrition rate in mind and any new processes which lower this rate will be offset by lowering the initial number of registrations.
(3) If someone doesn't like a race's tolerance/policies/investigation of cheaters, boycott the race. Pouting about fairness is largely pointless and vigilante justice is creepy.

[Jogger Barbie]

We were talking a little about this at the post-race celebrations last night. With a BQ time of 3:46:xx and a Boston time of 4:19:50, I would float right to the top of the "to be investigated" list. But I am pretty sure that other race results and photos would show this to be an outlier.

I am half-tempted to message the guy and tell him not to waste his time with my result.

Are you suuuuure it was you who ran yesterday and not Ed???

LOL - hope Marathon Foto got a few shots of me on the course!

[Jwolf]

(2) A 10% attrition rate sounds about right but let's make sure that we don't think that official bib transfers would increase the number of runners that are able to participate in the race. Major marathons set their registration caps with an attrition rate in mind and any new processes which lower this rate will be offset by lowering the initial number of registrations.

This is what I was going to say... as qualification has gotten harder and your qualification time doesn't guarantee an entry, every year there are people who ask why the BAA doesn't allow official bib transfers to qualifiers who miss the cutoff. But it's clear that the BAA figures the attrition rate into their initial registration limits. Allowing the transfers just creates more work for the BAA but would result in the same size field.

I suspect they also don't want to create a market for this sort of transfer. That is, it could encourage people to register even if they had no intention of running, knowing they could sell the entry to someone for a higher price.

[ian]

I suspect they also don't want to create a market for this sort of transfer. That is, it could encourage people to register even if they had no intention of running, knowing they could sell the entry to someone for a higher price.

It wouldn't necessarily have to. Suppose the entry fee is $300 (I have no idea). The BAA could offer a $150 refund for anyone who declines their bib prior to March 1 and then sell that bib at $300 to the next qualifier in line and the markup would cover administration and some token charitable cause. The $150 loss to the original entrant would mitigate uncommitted registrations, unless this new process increased the prices for unofficial transfers (and/or "normalized" the transferring of bibs to the point that many people stopped distinguishing between official and unofficial transfers).

[turd ferguson]

I don't care. It doesn't affect me personally and not a single person in the world was affected by this.

Except the person whose spot she took in Boston.

This happened prior to the new rules.

Even before the new rules, Boston did fill up. So she likely did take someone's spot who tried to register later.

And it affects all of us who care at all about the integrity of race times.

It doesn't affect me in the slightest.

One could say that about almost anything.

Yep. I don't think that's a bad thing.

[RobW]

Apparently, there were around 3,300 fewer BQs this year than last. It's the second lowest percentage of BQs in the past decade with the 2012 heat-wave being the lowest. Curious how that would be factored in.

(According to a RW thread, the cutoff for 2017 won't be anywhere near as high considering the fewer number of BQs from yesterday's race. The analysis made to predict 2016's cutoff was pretty close.)

[Jwolf]

Apparently, there were around 3,300 fewer BQs this year than last. It's the second lowest percentage of BQs in the past decade with the 2012 heat-wave being the lowest. Curious how that would be factored in.

I doubt we will see any drop in numbers of acceptances for 2017. If that's the case, then it's good news for Cheryl.

[chunkymonkeymelonhed]

Apparently, there were around 3,300 fewer BQs this year than last. It's the second lowest percentage of BQs in the past decade with the 2012 heat-wave being the lowest. Curious how that would be factored in.

I doubt we will see any drop in numbers of acceptances for 2017. If that's the case, then it's good news for Cheryl.

[La]

I suspect they also don't want to create a market for this sort of transfer. That is, it could encourage people to register even if they had no intention of running, knowing they could sell the entry to someone for a higher price.

It wouldn't necessarily have to. Suppose the entry fee is $300 (I have no idea). The BAA could offer a $150 refund for anyone who declines their bib prior to March 1 and then sell that bib at $300 to the next qualifier in line and the markup would cover administration and some token charitable cause. The $150 loss to the original entrant would mitigate uncommitted registrations, unless this new process increased the prices for unofficial transfers (and/or "normalized" the transferring of bibs to the point that many people stopped distinguishing between official and unofficial transfers).

I like ian's suggestion: not that the owner of the bib could transfer it directly to another qualifier, but that they could renege the bib and the BAA would give it to the next qualified applicant. Though that would require a lot of admin on the BAA's part.

[La]

Apparently, there were around 3,300 fewer BQs this year than last. It's the second lowest percentage of BQs in the past decade with the 2012 heat-wave being the lowest. Curious how that would be factored in.

I doubt we will see any drop in numbers of acceptances for 2017. If that's the case, then it's good news for Cheryl.

I'm sure you'll be fine.

[Jogger Barbie]

Apparently, there were around 3,300 fewer BQs this year than last. It's the second lowest percentage of BQs in the past decade with the 2012 heat-wave being the lowest. Curious how that would be factored in.

Interesting. I'm not surprised to hear this, since almost everyone I talked to last night/this morning (both people I know and random "how was your race" strangers) said they did not have the race they were hoping for. There didn't seem to be a single explanatory factor, like the weather. What I kept hearing was along the lines of "it just didn't seem to be my day".

[Pat29]

I hope the analysis mentioned above turns out to be correct. I currently have BQ - 2:31.

[Robinandamelia]

Apparently, there were around 3,300 fewer BQs this year than last. It's the second lowest percentage of BQs in the past decade with the 2012 heat-wave being the lowest. Curious how that would be factored in.

Interesting. I'm not surprised to hear this, since almost everyone I talked to last night/this morning (both people I know and random "how was your race" strangers) said they did not have the race they were hoping for. There didn't seem to be a single explanatory factor, like the weather. What I kept hearing was along the lines of "it just didn't seem to be my day".

I bet it was the heat...coming out of winter, people aren't prepared and even at 21C it's hot if your not used to it. In 2012 it was super hot, but in 2014 it was warmer than normal and I had a hard time.... Most of the people I tracked, struggled in the 2nd half and had substantially slower times then they wanted. Yuck on the heat.

[chunkymonkeymelonhed]

I hope the analysis mentioned above turns out to be correct. I currently have BQ - 2:31.

Fingers crossed for both of us!

[mas_runner]

I just don't get the cheater mindset. Why? Why bother, the joy must be so short lived and hollow. It's like a guy I play golf with, why not just play the ball as it lies and count all your strokes, surely breaking 90 the honest way is much more of an achievement than foot-wedging etc.

It only affect an admittedly small number of other people but the arrogance of this kind of person is staggering.

[deerdree]

i'm the odd duck, but i could totally understand why someone would cheat to run boston. and how they would still enjoy it. i mean, the roar of crowds as you're down boylston isn't dimmer just because you cheated to get there. sure, you're only getting the thrill of running the race and a lifetime of memories, and not the satisfaction of having earned it. but two out of three ain't bad!

i'm not saying i would do it, i'm just saying that i don't have trouble understanding why someone would.

the only "cheating" i don't understand is buying a medal off ebay or something with the goal of pretending you ran the race. there, i really can't understand the logic.

[La]

i'm the odd duck, but i could totally understand why someone would cheat to run boston. and how they would still enjoy it. i mean, the roar of crowds as you're down boylston isn't dimmer just because you cheated to get there. sure, you're only getting the thrill of running the race and a lifetime of memories, and not the satisfaction of having earned it. but two out of three ain't bad!

i'm not saying i would do it, i'm just saying that i don't have trouble understanding why someone would.

I agree with you. Not everyone is motivated the same way. Not everyone cares that Boston is meant (mostly) for people who ran a qualifying race. And people can rationalize just about anything they do to make it "OK" in their minds.

[Jogger Barbie]

I was thinking about this thread earlier today, and was wondering if there might currently be fewer cheaters than in previous years. Does anyone know how the BAA verified qualifying times prior to virtually all race results being on-line, complete with photos? Not to mention sites like Sportstats and Athlinks.com that neatly summarize all your results in one place. Did people submit photocopies of race results, or did a race director have to verify a time, or...? It seems like cheating might have been easier when there was no electronic footprint.

[turd ferguson]

i'm the odd duck, but i could totally understand why someone would cheat to run boston. and how they would still enjoy it. i mean, the roar of crowds as you're down boylston isn't dimmer just because you cheated to get there. sure, you're only getting the thrill of running the race and a lifetime of memories, and not the satisfaction of having earned it. but two out of three ain't bad!

Not only that, you get yourself a Boston jacket, you get to go home and go to hang around the start/finish line at every local race wearing your Boston jacket and work the word Boston into every conversation.

[La]

i'm the odd duck, but i could totally understand why someone would cheat to run boston. and how they would still enjoy it. i mean, the roar of crowds as you're down boylston isn't dimmer just because you cheated to get there. sure, you're only getting the thrill of running the race and a lifetime of memories, and not the satisfaction of having earned it. but two out of three ain't bad!

Not only that, you get yourself a Boston jacket, you get to go home and go to hang around the start/finish line at every local race wearing your Boston jacket and work the word Boston into every conversation.

Ironman is good for that, too.

[deerdree]

i'm the odd duck, but i could totally understand why someone would cheat to run boston. and how they would still enjoy it. i mean, the roar of crowds as you're down boylston isn't dimmer just because you cheated to get there. sure, you're only getting the thrill of running the race and a lifetime of memories, and not the satisfaction of having earned it. but two out of three ain't bad!

Not only that, you get yourself a Boston jacket, you get to go home and go to hang around the start/finish line at every local race wearing your Boston jacket and work the word Boston into every conversation.

Ironman is good for that, too.

true, but you don't have to cheat or run the race to get the jacket. just got the expo and buy one!