Future of RM

Questions and comments about the forum or the web site
Mark.AU
Bill Crothers
Posts: 2583
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:30 am

Re: Future of RM

Postby Mark.AU » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:10 pm

ultraslacker wrote:
Mark.AU wrote:So, the real question is whether you, Holly, have the courage to break the current paradigm?

If someone who is true to the RM vision and values wants to take RM over, they can, but I would never hand it over to someone whose core values do not align with mine, and with the other key members of the group.

So that's a "no" then.

Ok, your site, your rules. I made a deliberately provocative post to see what would happen, to see if it would generate discussion. It took a couple of days but there was one response from someone who contributes NOTHING to the site (and her response contributed NOTHING to this discussion), there was a good comment from Jennifer (which I don't agree with, but it definitely bears discussion), and then there was you.

You attacked me, which I expected, and then you challenged me to contribute; good!. I responded with some pretty good suggestions (I think) and you responded with... well, nothing really. You might have asked for elaboration on some of my points, as if you actually cared about "Future of RM".

Oh well, as you correctly point out, I don't have any skin in the game.

By the way, tell me, how successful have you been at finding anyone else who'd be willing to put some of their skin in? How did this thread work out for you, how many did you find willing to put some skin in the game?
"It's now very common to hear people say 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fcuking what."

Stephen Fry.

User avatar
Spirit Unleashed
Lynn Williams
Posts: 21763
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:38 am
Location: The Texas Tropics

Re: Future of RM

Postby Spirit Unleashed » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:16 pm

Nick was perfectly right in locking that ATB thread. It was becoming an argument.
Is that what you are pissed about Mark?

No one replied to your first contentious post here because we are not contentious.
Athlete....Maniac 973....Marathon Maniac 6645
Live the most amazing life you can live - La
marathon runners are awesomeness personified - Ian
Bucket list: http://www.tassietrailfest.com.au/
http://ultramonk.blogspot.com/

Mark.AU
Bill Crothers
Posts: 2583
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:30 am

Re: Future of RM

Postby Mark.AU » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:20 pm

Spirit Unleashed wrote:Nick was perfectly right in locking that ATB thread. It was becoming an argument.
Is that what you are pissed about Mark?

No one replied to your first contentious post here because we are not contentious.

QED.
"It's now very common to hear people say 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fcuking what."

Stephen Fry.

User avatar
ultraslacker
Site Admin
Posts: 46890
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 5:33 pm
Location: paradise
Contact:

Re: Future of RM

Postby ultraslacker » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:26 pm

Mark, there are enough personal insults in this thread alone to warrant banning you so how about you just simmer down over there before I ban your ass?

For the record, Samantha has contributed far more to this community than you EVER have. So has Jwolf. All you have done is stir the pot and stroke your own ego.

So if you detest me that much and think we're all so beneath you, why don't you just take yourself out of here before I do it for you?
"You're an ultrarunner, normal rules don't apply to you." (Doonst)


First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. ~Epictetus

IronColl
Lynn Williams
Posts: 19393
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:51 pm
Location: Right here
Contact:

Re: Future of RM

Postby IronColl » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:31 pm

Mark.AU wrote:If you think the medium is finished, you should take a look at Slowtwitch; it's far from dead.

What am I still here? Morbid curiosity I suppose.

What have I contributed? Dunno really, but I do know that my journals were amongst the one or two most read, in terms of views per post, so I must have contributed in some way.

I don't think I've ever literally promised to go away; but, I have announced I was leaving once and this is my third login ID so I guess you're right. I promise I'll work harder on my exit strategy cause that's what RM needs, the more colourful/contentious/controversial members to exit.

My suggestions were kinda implied in my first post, I suppose they went over your head so here's a more explicit list;

1. Allow arguments and disagreements to happen and stop Nick from being a censor, sorry, moderator.

2. Stop toloerating new members being attacked for having a different view from that held by the board royalty.

3. Create editorial space for contributors; pick [at least some of the] contributors based on their ability to generate discussion and disagreement. LET THAT DISAGREEMENT HAPPEN.

4. Allow the board in general to be more "edgy;" the only people who want nice all the time are the ones who won't contribute.

5. Cross-promote between all social media to drive traffic to the website; use Facebook and Instagram and Twitter to promote the brand and drive traffic to the chosen primary platform (it could be any one of those, just chose one).

6. Create reasons for people to join; give them something that they can latch on to. Newbies want support, competitors want competition, contentious SOB's like me want someone to argue with. Create active content which encourages engagement like quizzes, competitions, challenges, etc.

7. Generate some revenue with some subdued advertising. None of us like to see ads, but revenue creates opportunities for promoting the site.

Now, that's right off the top of my head - not a single insult or accusation in that list, but I'm willing to bet someone will find one.

RM can either continue to languish or it can grow. The problem is that most of the current membership, I bet, wants nothing to change because it would wreck their little sandpit.

So, the real question is whether you, Holly, have the courage to break the current paradigm?


1, 2, 3. I agree with the sentiment. Leave a disagreement between two people up to them. There is no need for a third person to butt in and tell them to "take it down a notch", nor is there a need to speak on behalf of someone. We are all adults and if something ticks you off personally, stand up for yourself. And if your name isn't dropped, butt out.

5. A great idea. There are lots of us with instagram. We can #runningmania, #rm. What if there was an RM instagram account and we could take turns being in charge of it. My account is public so I don't mind my face being linked to it. I know there are lots of members who are active on twitter.
If all that you read is everything you believe then let go, then let go, then let go.

Nothing will change if you never choose.

2018 goals: May half marathon, September half marathon

Mark.AU
Bill Crothers
Posts: 2583
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:30 am

Re: Future of RM

Postby Mark.AU » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:42 pm

ultraslacker wrote:Mark, there are enough personal insults in this thread alone to warrant banning you so how about you just simmer down over there before I ban your ass?

For the record, Samantha has contributed far more to this community than you EVER have. So has Jwolf. All you have done is stir the pot and stroke your own ego.

So if you detest me that much and think we're all so beneath you, why don't you just take yourself out of here before I do it for you?

What makes you think I detest you, or think that anyone is beneath me? That's a huuggggee leap - I don't agree with you, or it seems with the majority of active RM members, but "detest", "beneath," seriously? You and I must be using different versions of English.

Anyway, "ban my ass," (lol) I don't give a crap. Clearly I'm the one out of lockstep with the board and what I want it to be isn't what it wants to be. And that's fine.

It's all good.
"It's now very common to hear people say 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fcuking what."

Stephen Fry.

User avatar
ultraslacker
Site Admin
Posts: 46890
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 5:33 pm
Location: paradise
Contact:

Re: Future of RM

Postby ultraslacker » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:55 pm

Mark.AU wrote:
ultraslacker wrote:Mark, there are enough personal insults in this thread alone to warrant banning you so how about you just simmer down over there before I ban your ass?

For the record, Samantha has contributed far more to this community than you EVER have. So has Jwolf. All you have done is stir the pot and stroke your own ego.

So if you detest me that much and think we're all so beneath you, why don't you just take yourself out of here before I do it for you?

What makes you think I detest you, or think that anyone is beneath me? That's a huuggggee leap - I don't agree with you, or it seems with the majority of active RM members, but "detest", "beneath," seriously? You and I must be using different versions of English.

Anyway, "ban my ass," (lol) I don't give a crap. Clearly I'm the one out of lockstep with the board and what I want it to be isn't what it wants to be. And that's fine.

It's all good.



"pathetic shell"
"bereft of any passion, focus or spirit"
"three or four chronically offended people ruled the board"
"one response from someone who contributes NOTHING to the site (and her response contributed NOTHING to this discussion)"
"You attacked me, which I expected"
"What am I still here? Morbid curiosity I suppose."
"My suggestions were kinda implied in my first post, I suppose they went over your head "
"stop Nick from being a censor, sorry, moderator"
"the only people who want nice all the time are the ones who won't contribute"

I don't buy for a second that you honestly can't see how incredibly condescending your words and tone are, nor do I buy that the condescension isn't intentional. It's intentional and it's mean-spirited, and we've been tolerating it for far too long.
"You're an ultrarunner, normal rules don't apply to you." (Doonst)


First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. ~Epictetus

Mark.AU
Bill Crothers
Posts: 2583
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:30 am

Re: Future of RM

Postby Mark.AU » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:02 pm

Not sure if this will even post, but this be my last on this.

Yes, the "over your head" comment was condescending, personal and out of line, I'm sorry for that one.
"It's now very common to hear people say 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fcuking what."

Stephen Fry.

User avatar
dgrant
Lynn Williams
Posts: 13854
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Down by the river

Re: Future of RM

Postby dgrant » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:38 pm

A funny irony is that in RM's heyday (say 2005-2007) when there were dozens of new topics everyday (many contentious) and 100+ new members per month, the board was very heavily curated. Posts were deleted left and right, threads were locked or split off, high profile members were formally banned or informally run off. This is by far RM's most unsupervised, unfocused era. The idea that this website is so quiet now because of over moderation is laughable.

I agree with jwolf that this community created some great memories. Maybe that's all there is left, but I'll still look at it as a net positive.

I agree with Holly that the fate of most message board communities was sealed with the popularity and superior functionality of Facebook and Twitter. No regrets, no blame to go around.

I would additionally mention that even when RM had more than a thousand active users it relied entirely on the efforts of a half dozen core contributors. People who organized and followed through on real-life meetups (sometimes when dozens would show up, sometimes still when it was clear three people would show up)... People who spent dozens or hundreds of hours procuring (and ultimately subsidizing) all those shirts that made their way around the country... People who actually created and followed through on challenges and competitions rather than just suggesting them. The catch is that when that handful of people lost interest or became disillusioned or moved on, well here we are. Again, no one to blame... just the nature of things.

There has been some consistency in 12 years... There have always been people who excused their own rude communication style by saying "hey, I tell it like it is". Back in the day you kind of had to take it from certain people because they had some good running credentials and you could at least believe they knew what "it" was. In 2017, the only RMer who still proudly says "I don't bother with niceties" peaked as a plodding slowpoke, so it reads as all rudeness no usefulness. Shouldn't you at least achieve mediocrity before shooting elitism? Oh well, it takes all kinds. Good thing there's slowtwitch for folks who think they can buy athleticism at a bike shop.
Last edited by dgrant on Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ultraslacker
Site Admin
Posts: 46890
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 5:33 pm
Location: paradise
Contact:

Re: Future of RM

Postby ultraslacker » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:05 pm

We know it's a hot topic when it brings dgrant out of hiding. ;)

Thank you all for your input and I apologize for having that conversation publicly, when normally we would do that privately. It seemed that enough of that particular drama had been public, the finale may as well have been too...

In spite of my frustration earlier I do really care about RM past and present, and if there is a future that will work with new social media I will support it, but I do not have the capacity to take it on by myself (and never did--as Dave said, it was a team effort from the beginning!).

Let's keep the conversation going, and maybe we'll pick up someone with some new media skills...?
"You're an ultrarunner, normal rules don't apply to you." (Doonst)


First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. ~Epictetus

User avatar
La
Kevin Sullivan
Posts: 47990
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:11 pm
Location: Lesleyville!

Re: Future of RM

Postby La » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:30 am

There are plenty of spaces available for people who want to get into p!ssing contests. Every space (virtual and physical) where people meet has a culture. That culture develops based on what is and isn't accepted by the majority of members of the community. RM's culture has developed into on where we certainly can have different opinions, but where we draw the line at name calling and personal attacks (You want that? Go post on Twitter). When you think about the people who were driven away or banned, they were all people who crossed the line one too many times and were called out for it. And others who left of their own accord, often did so because they felt personally attacked or belittled and that RM wasn't welcoming to them anymore. In

RM has gone through several growing pains in the last 12 years, usually when we get an influx of new members who test out the waters to see what is/isn't acceptable to say. The one thing that made a huge difference for me was meeting people in person. In person, you can still have heated discussions about things, but rarely does it lead to fist fights or verbal attacks.

Mark, if I hadn't met you in person several times (and find you funny, interesting, a bit of a jerk, but generally a nice person), I don't think you'd be the kind of person I'd want to be friends with based on how you come across online. But we all have different personas in different realms of our lives. Unfortunately, the online world makes it hard to form real bonds with people as it's too difficult to read subtext and tone in a written post.
"Maybe I will be my own inspiration." - UltraMonk (Laura)
"Everywhere is walking distance if you have enough time." - Steven Wright

IronColl
Lynn Williams
Posts: 19393
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:51 pm
Location: Right here
Contact:

Re: Future of RM

Postby IronColl » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:45 am

So going back to the idea about social media, I'm happy to act as "Runningmania" on Instagram and like and comment on people's runs who hashtag, but also search around and do that for open public profiles.

Is someone willing to make an account with a picture and a bio that links to the forum?
If all that you read is everything you believe then let go, then let go, then let go.

Nothing will change if you never choose.

2018 goals: May half marathon, September half marathon

User avatar
Habs4ever
Kevin Sullivan
Posts: 31317
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:39 pm
Location: Alberta

Re: Future of RM

Postby Habs4ever » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:24 am

I've been thinking about the future of RM since Holly first posted this topic. I would be very sad if RM faded out but I honestly don't know how I can help it carry on other than engaging in topics I feel I'm able to. I'm not a debater, so for me to get involved in controversial subjects would be out of my comfort zone. I don't have fabulous advice about injuries or speed or technique so I tend to leave those subjects alone. I'm not techy so I can't help with that end of it, I don't do Twitter, Facebook or any of the other things out there.

My strengths and personality are to be a nurturer, encourager, and a lead by example person. I just do what I do and hope someone can learn something positive from it.

How does this helps RM? I don't know....but if people examine their strengths and different personalities we can work together to make it work. Use our differences to build instead of tearing down.
I wanna live like there's no tomorrow
Love, like I'm on borrowed time
It's good to be alive, yeah....Jason Gray

Running is a conversation with your body. Sometimes you listen and sometimes you tell it to stop whining and do something. - Ian

deerdree
Kevin Sullivan
Posts: 31340
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: burlington, ON

Re: Future of RM

Postby deerdree » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:32 am

IronColl wrote:So going back to the idea about social media, I'm happy to act as "Runningmania" on Instagram and like and comment on people's runs who hashtag, but also search around and do that for open public profiles.

Is someone willing to make an account with a picture and a bio that links to the forum?

i'm not on instagram, but i think this would be a great idea!

deerdree
Kevin Sullivan
Posts: 31340
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: burlington, ON

Re: Future of RM

Postby deerdree » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:47 am

La wrote:There are plenty of spaces available for people who want to get into p!ssing contests. Every space (virtual and physical) where people meet has a culture. That culture develops based on what is and isn't accepted by the majority of members of the community. RM's culture has developed into on where we certainly can have different opinions, but where we draw the line at name calling and personal attacks (You want that? Go post on Twitter). When you think about the people who were driven away or banned, they were all people who crossed the line one too many times and were called out for it. And others who left of their own accord, often did so because they felt personally attacked or belittled and that RM wasn't welcoming to them anymore. In

RM has gone through several growing pains in the last 12 years, usually when we get an influx of new members who test out the waters to see what is/isn't acceptable to say. The one thing that made a huge difference for me was meeting people in person. In person, you can still have heated discussions about things, but rarely does it lead to fist fights or verbal attacks.

Mark, if I hadn't met you in person several times (and find you funny, interesting, a bit of a jerk, but generally a nice person), I don't think you'd be the kind of person I'd want to be friends with based on how you come across online. But we all have different personas in different realms of our lives. Unfortunately, the online world makes it hard to form real bonds with people as it's too difficult to read subtext and tone in a written post.

it's hard to know without doing a formal 'exit survey', but i would echo the comments of people who think that spaces like instragram and facebook have largely replaced the interactions we used to have on RM. the forums that i see thriving these days tend to be because of their anonymity and the ability to say or debate anything without attaching your name to it - and that's never what RM was really about.

with that said, i was just chatting with someone this weekend who doesn't post on RM anymore, and she mentioned that there wasn't as much 'hoopla' about around the bay on facebook this year even though her friends list is filled with maniacs. so i don't know if people have moved on from RM or moved on from racing or moved on from running. we've seen the stats that running and racing participation are declining. maybe if we change the name to crossfit mania? :lol:

but i agree with dgrant who agreed with jwolf - i'm grateful for the friendships and memories. i hope we can keep chugging, but it will require some effort, i think.

deerdree
Kevin Sullivan
Posts: 31340
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: burlington, ON

Re: Future of RM

Postby deerdree » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:51 am

Habs4ever wrote:How does this helps RM? I don't know....but if people examine their strengths and different personalities we can work together to make it work. Use our differences to build instead of tearing down.

i can contribute (informal) reviews of science and the research literature, where appropriate.

User avatar
Habs4ever
Kevin Sullivan
Posts: 31317
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:39 pm
Location: Alberta

Re: Future of RM

Postby Habs4ever » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:54 am

deerdree wrote:
Habs4ever wrote:How does this helps RM? I don't know....but if people examine their strengths and different personalities we can work together to make it work. Use our differences to build instead of tearing down.

i can contribute (informal) reviews of science and the research literature, where appropriate.

And we rely heavily on your Google-fu skills and RM search skills.
I wanna live like there's no tomorrow
Love, like I'm on borrowed time
It's good to be alive, yeah....Jason Gray

Running is a conversation with your body. Sometimes you listen and sometimes you tell it to stop whining and do something. - Ian

deerdree
Kevin Sullivan
Posts: 31340
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: burlington, ON

Re: Future of RM

Postby deerdree » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:23 am

Habs4ever wrote:
deerdree wrote:
Habs4ever wrote:How does this helps RM? I don't know....but if people examine their strengths and different personalities we can work together to make it work. Use our differences to build instead of tearing down.

i can contribute (informal) reviews of science and the research literature, where appropriate.

And we rely heavily on your Google-fu skills and RM search skills.

yes, i forgot to mention my institutional knowledge. :lol:

tayken
Tom Longboat
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:16 pm
Location: 401 corridor, ON

Re: Future of RM

Postby tayken » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:30 am

Amen to the stuff in BOLD. Speaking as someone who was told to "take it down a notch" by a person that was standing up / playing high school clique for someone else

IronColl wrote: 1, 2, 3. I agree with the sentiment. Leave a disagreement between two people up to them. There is no need for a third person to butt in and tell them to "take it down a notch", nor is there a need to speak on behalf of someone. We are all adults and if something ticks you off personally, stand up for yourself. And if your name isn't dropped, butt out.
On the books for 2017

Winterman 10km - (1st in age group) - Feb 19,
Chilly Half Marathon - Mar 5 (Done)
Around the bay 30k - Mar 26, (Done)
Limestone 1/2 - Apr 30,
Ottawa race weekend Voyager Challenge - May 27-28,
Spring Fling Toronto - June?
World Record Kilt Run Perth - June 24
Foam Fest 5k Ottawa - Jul 22
Pure Protein Night Race - Aug 12
Army Run Vimy Challenge - Sep 17
Marathon Du P'tit Train Du Nord Quebec - Oct 22

User avatar
Habs4ever
Kevin Sullivan
Posts: 31317
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:39 pm
Location: Alberta

Re: Future of RM

Postby Habs4ever » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:10 pm

But if you don't stand up for people and call them out on bad behaviour, isn't that just letting people get away with it?
Our kids are taught in school from a young age to take a stand against inappropriate behaviour and comments, shouldn't we as adults do the same?
I wanna live like there's no tomorrow
Love, like I'm on borrowed time
It's good to be alive, yeah....Jason Gray

Running is a conversation with your body. Sometimes you listen and sometimes you tell it to stop whining and do something. - Ian

RobW
Bill Crothers
Posts: 1753
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:16 am

Re: Future of RM

Postby RobW » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:39 pm

Habs4ever wrote:But if you don't stand up for people and call them out on bad behaviour, isn't that just letting people get away with it?

Yup agreed.

It's also pathetic how the comment is still getting mentioned.

User avatar
La
Kevin Sullivan
Posts: 47990
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:11 pm
Location: Lesleyville!

Re: Future of RM

Postby La » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:34 pm

I'm a big girl, and can fight my own battles. I also gave up caring about what other people thing of me quite a while ago, so I can take pretty much anything. And I'm not afraid to take a stand when I think someone has been picked on unfairly, or treated in a disrespectful way, especially if they are my friends.

As I stated up thread, having had the benefit of meeting many people on this board in real life (and forging real relationships with them over the last 12 years) means that I can read the intent behind someone's post if it's someone I know personally. I also think many of us have built up a level of trust (even if we haven't met in person yet) that we can call each other out without resorting to personal attacks.
tayken wrote:Amen to the stuff in BOLD. Speaking as someone who was told to "take it down a notch" by a person that was standing up / playing high school clique for someone else

IronColl wrote: 1, 2, 3. I agree with the sentiment. Leave a disagreement between two people up to them. There is no need for a third person to butt in and tell them to "take it down a notch", nor is there a need to speak on behalf of someone. We are all adults and if something ticks you off personally, stand up for yourself. And if your name isn't dropped, butt out.

Call it a clique if you want. I call it standing up for my friends, and I won't apologize for that. You only recently joined the board and I wouldn't know you if I ran past you on the street. I've met ian in person a couple of times, so he gets the benefit of the doubt from my perspective in this situation. Heck, I'll even defend Mark.AU if I think he's been treated unfairly.
Habs4ever wrote:But if you don't stand up for people and call them out on bad behaviour, isn't that just letting people get away with it?
Our kids are taught in school from a young age to take a stand against inappropriate behaviour and comments, shouldn't we as adults do the same?

Exactly. That's how culture and group norms are created. And that's why Twitter (and Reddit and 4Chan, etc.) have a reputation of being hostile environments - because nobody is calling anyone on their bad behaviour! I don't want RM to be that kind of place, so I take a stand when I see it happening.

If, on the other hand, the "hive" decides that it wants to be the kind of board where anything goes and anything can be said without repercussion or accountability, then I'll simply go elsewhere.
Last edited by La on Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Maybe I will be my own inspiration." - UltraMonk (Laura)
"Everywhere is walking distance if you have enough time." - Steven Wright

User avatar
Jwolf
Kevin Sullivan
Posts: 37476
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:02 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Future of RM

Postby Jwolf » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:46 pm

Yes, I agree it's ok for members to call each other out before things get out of hand. Perhaps in this most recent case someone else should have been called out first (and I almost did, but by that point the thread had already taken a turn).

And to those suggestions above to let people express opinions and let arguments continue: Runningmania has ALWAYS been a place where discussions and expressions of opinion and disagreement are welcome. However, in the past there were many times that discussions went past the line of disagreement and respectful discourse, and moderators rightly stepped in. What started as "confrontation" and "friendly argument" became mudslinging, expression of elitism, and hurtful insults. Perhaps some people enjoy that kind of "discussion", but those threads were NOT what made RM more vibrant and active in the past. I won't go into details, but Holly would have never lashed out above had there not been a history.
Support me in my fundraising for the Boston Marathon, Boston Public Library team:
https://www.crowdrise.com/o/en/campaign ... iferwolf11

tayken
Tom Longboat
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:16 pm
Location: 401 corridor, ON

Re: Future of RM

Postby tayken » Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:14 pm

So when a poster eluded to the fact that someone is a "creep", where was the clique at that time to call this particular poster out on that?

Habs4ever wrote:But if you don't stand up for people and call them out on bad behaviour, isn't that just letting people get away with it?
Our kids are taught in school from a young age to take a stand against inappropriate behaviour and comments, shouldn't we as adults do the same?
On the books for 2017

Winterman 10km - (1st in age group) - Feb 19,
Chilly Half Marathon - Mar 5 (Done)
Around the bay 30k - Mar 26, (Done)
Limestone 1/2 - Apr 30,
Ottawa race weekend Voyager Challenge - May 27-28,
Spring Fling Toronto - June?
World Record Kilt Run Perth - June 24
Foam Fest 5k Ottawa - Jul 22
Pure Protein Night Race - Aug 12
Army Run Vimy Challenge - Sep 17
Marathon Du P'tit Train Du Nord Quebec - Oct 22

tayken
Tom Longboat
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:16 pm
Location: 401 corridor, ON

Re: Future of RM

Postby tayken » Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:21 pm

I guess your "friends" can't speak for themselves and need you to be their gatekeeper, or you just love being combative and interjecting in other people's business. From your comments below, if you see a stranger being racially / sexually / physically abused / attacked / harassed, you won't do a thing because you don't know them.

Your apology is not required because I couldn't give a damn who you are or what you are. You obviously condone your "friends" calling people names by the sound of it. This tells me that you are unable to tell your "friends" their action is wrong when needed for the fair of being unfriended. Lord have mercy....

High school mentality lives on

La wrote:I'm a big girl, and can fight my own battles. I also gave up caring about what other people thing of me quite a while ago, so I can take pretty much anything. And I'm not afraid to take a stand when I think someone has been picked on unfairly, or treated in a disrespectful way, especially if they are my friends.

As I stated up thread, having had the benefit of meeting many people on this board in real life (and forging real relationships with them over the last 12 years) means that I can read the intent behind someone's post if it's someone I know personally. I also think many of us have built up a level of trust (even if we haven't met in person yet) that we can call each other out without resorting to personal attacks.
tayken wrote:Amen to the stuff in BOLD. Speaking as someone who was told to "take it down a notch" by a person that was standing up / playing high school clique for someone else

IronColl wrote: 1, 2, 3. I agree with the sentiment. Leave a disagreement between two people up to them. There is no need for a third person to butt in and tell them to "take it down a notch", nor is there a need to speak on behalf of someone. We are all adults and if something ticks you off personally, stand up for yourself. And if your name isn't dropped, butt out.

Call it a clique if you want. I call it standing up for my friends, and I won't apologize for that. You only recently joined the board and I wouldn't know you if I ran past you on the street. I've met ian in person a couple of times, so he gets the benefit of the doubt from my perspective in this situation. Heck, I'll even defend Mark.AU if I think he's been treated unfairly.
Habs4ever wrote:But if you don't stand up for people and call them out on bad behaviour, isn't that just letting people get away with it?
Our kids are taught in school from a young age to take a stand against inappropriate behaviour and comments, shouldn't we as adults do the same?

Exactly. That's how culture and group norms are created. And that's why Twitter (and Reddit and 4Chan, etc.) have a reputation of being hostile environments - because nobody is calling anyone on their bad behaviour! I don't want RM to be that kind of place, so I take a stand when I see it happening.

If, on the other hand, the "hive" decides that it wants to be the kind of board where anything goes and anything can be said without repercussion or accountability, then I'll simply go elsewhere.
On the books for 2017

Winterman 10km - (1st in age group) - Feb 19,
Chilly Half Marathon - Mar 5 (Done)
Around the bay 30k - Mar 26, (Done)
Limestone 1/2 - Apr 30,
Ottawa race weekend Voyager Challenge - May 27-28,
Spring Fling Toronto - June?
World Record Kilt Run Perth - June 24
Foam Fest 5k Ottawa - Jul 22
Pure Protein Night Race - Aug 12
Army Run Vimy Challenge - Sep 17
Marathon Du P'tit Train Du Nord Quebec - Oct 22


Return to “Site News, Questions, and Comments”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest