correlation or corroboration of La's theory of training

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Ironboy
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correlation or corroboration of La's theory of training

Postby Ironboy » Tue May 19, 2015 1:19 pm

How To Create Healthy Exercise Habits - askmen.com

Back in 1991 Gabriele Oettingen, a professor of psychology at NYU, first discovered that people who fantasized about a positive outcome were less likely to achieve the desired outcome


A lot of what we've discussed here and elsewhere, but nonetheless an interesting perspective on journey vs. destination.

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Re: correlation or corroboration of La's theory of training

Postby La » Wed May 20, 2015 2:01 pm

I read the article you linked to on FB (weird, I never got a notification that you tagged me in it). I somewhat agree (and somewhat disagree) with his POV. I like the way James Clear talks about Goals vs. Systems (aka, process) http://jamesclear.com/goals-systems (I've posted that link before).

I think it's helpful to have a goal (something to work toward, to provide motivation), but the whole idea of "SMART" goals makes me want to hurl (and I hear this term at work and other places all the time). :roll: The "SMART" part is the system: what are the specific things you are going to do (and when) in order to work toward your goal? That said, all the "SMART" habit/processes/systems in the world are no guarantee that you will ever reach the goal. I don't buy into the "if you want something badly enough, and work hard enough at it, anything is possible" mindset. And the reason I don't like it, is because it implies that if for some reason you don't attain the goal that somehow you are a failure who just didn't try hard enough.
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Re: correlation or corroboration of La's theory of training

Postby Jwolf » Wed May 20, 2015 5:11 pm

La wrote:I don't buy into the "if you want something badly enough, and work hard enough at it, anything is possible" mindset. And the reason I don't like it, is because it implies that if for some reason you don't attain the goal that somehow you are a failure who just didn't try hard enough.

agree completely.
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Re: correlation or corroboration of La's theory of training

Postby Pat Menzies » Wed May 20, 2015 8:34 pm

Jwolf wrote:
La wrote:I don't buy into the "if you want something badly enough, and work hard enough at it, anything is possible" mindset. And the reason I don't like it, is because it implies that if for some reason you don't attain the goal that somehow you are a failure who just didn't try hard enough.

agree completely.

Disagree to some degree. :wink:
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Re: correlation or corroboration of La's theory of training

Postby Mark.AU » Wed May 20, 2015 8:37 pm

Pat Menzies wrote:
Jwolf wrote:
La wrote:I don't buy into the "if you want something badly enough, and work hard enough at it, anything is possible" mindset. And the reason I don't like it, is because it implies that if for some reason you don't attain the goal that somehow you are a failure who just didn't try hard enough.

agree completely.

Disagree to some degree. :wink:

Agree with Pat ;)
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Re: correlation or corroboration of La's theory of training

Postby daddy_runner » Wed May 20, 2015 10:02 pm

There is no such thing as failure. At the very least, you learn what doesn't work.
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Re: correlation or corroboration of La's theory of training

Postby Jwolf » Wed May 20, 2015 10:12 pm

daddy_runner wrote:There is no such thing as failure. At the very least, you learn what doesn't work.


I agree with this. Turning failure around to "This didn't work because _____ " makes sense. As in, "The goal was unrealistic and needed to be modified," or, "The time was not right and the goal needs to be postponed," or whatever.

But that's different than saying "Anything is possible -- you just have to work for it."

No matter how hard I try, I will never run a 3-hour marathon or a 5-minute in my lifetime. I also don't expect to win the Nobel Prize in chemistry or discover a cure cancer simply by trying really hard in the lab. So goals need to be realistic and can't be just "anything."
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Re: correlation or corroboration of La's theory of training

Postby Mark.AU » Thu May 21, 2015 2:09 am

Jwolf wrote:As in, "The goal was unrealistic and needed to be modified," or, "The time was not right and the goal needs to be postponed," or whatever.

But that's different than saying "Anything is possible -- you just have to work for it."

No matter how hard I try, I will never run a 3-hour marathon or a 5-minute in my lifetime. I also don't expect to win the Nobel Prize in chemistry or discover a cure cancer simply by trying really hard in the lab. So goals need to be realistic and can't be just "anything."

Well, that's the point isn't it? The "A" in SMART stands for Achievable. It would be the same for me if I set myself an 8hr IM goal. That just isn't achievable so not reaching it is a failure of goal setting, not performance.
"It's now very common to hear people say 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fcuking what."

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Re: correlation or corroboration of La's theory of training

Postby Pat Menzies » Thu May 21, 2015 6:29 am

The hardest part for most people is letting go of their failures as representing evidence of the impossible.
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Re: correlation or corroboration of La's theory of training

Postby Ironboy » Thu May 21, 2015 1:43 pm

Mark.AU wrote:
Jwolf wrote:As in, "The goal was unrealistic and needed to be modified," or, "The time was not right and the goal needs to be postponed," or whatever.

But that's different than saying "Anything is possible -- you just have to work for it."

No matter how hard I try, I will never run a 3-hour marathon or a 5-minute in my lifetime. I also don't expect to win the Nobel Prize in chemistry or discover a cure cancer simply by trying really hard in the lab. So goals need to be realistic and can't be just "anything."

Well, that's the point isn't it? The "A" in SMART stands for Achievable. It would be the same for me if I set myself an 8hr IM goal. That just isn't achievable so not reaching it is a failure of goal setting, not performance.


So it should be "Anything achievable is possible -- you just have to work for it."

Kinda sounds hollow that way though.

The part I felt tied to La's theory/principle/method/whatever is how if you spend too much energy thinking about how wonderful achieving the goal will be, you're more likely to fail, than if you focused on the journey, you may or may not achieve the wonderful goal, but you'll be in a far better place than you are now.

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Re: correlation or corroboration of La's theory of training

Postby La » Thu May 21, 2015 2:12 pm

Ironboy wrote:The part I felt tied to La's theory/principle/method/whatever is how if you spend too much energy thinking about how wonderful achieving the goal will be, you're more likely to fail, than if you focused on the journey, you may or may not achieve the wonderful goal, but you'll be in a far better place than you are now.

This all came from my experience after crossing the finish line of my first IM in 2003. I was sitting all alone in the change tent (since I was only 27 minutes ahead of the cutoff time) and asking myself, "Is that it? Is that all there is?" It was a very lonely feeling. And in the weeks that passed after the event (like many marathoners, especially first timers, can attest), I fell into a post-Ironman slump. I found that reflecting on the process, rather than just on the outcome, helped me to gain even more satisfaction from the experience.

YMMV.
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