glucosamine

[ultraslacker]

does glucosamine REALLY help joints?

I have lots of things cracking and popping lately (no pain, just lots of pops) and was wondering if that would help... also my old knee injuries still bother me sometimes...

?

[mlazenby]

I'm sold, and my knee and lower-back problems are both quite serious. I only take 2/3 of the recommended dosage (2 900mg caps a day) and both times I stopped for a while problems returned. Conversely I can run 80k plus per week with no problems while taking it.

Make sure you take the glucosamin/chondroitin combo as the glucosamine is not absorbed correctly on its own.

[J-D]

I ususally take one everyday after dinner. I think you'll find research from both sides, against and for. I never had real problems before I started taking it... mostly it's for preventive reasons (climbing is very hard on the hand joints). I have friends who have hip, knee, and shoulder problems who are convinced that the pain is less frequent and less intense.

[Marg]

Firm believer here.. I tested the placebo theory and I am convinced it really does work.

[Gummivore]

I take 1x900gm a day (1/3 recommended dosage because I'm a cheap ****) and I do have way less joint problems compared to this time last year. Though, it could also be that I'm stronger ... It doesn't hurt taking it I figure (Dr. Marathoner Wolf, wanna weigh in?)

SB

[La]

I take two caplet of Glucosamine/Condroitin every morning with my breakfast (not sure the dosage as I don't have the bottle handy). I had been having some pain in my hands, actually (quite odd for a runner/cyclist). Since I've been taking it (probably about 6 months now), I no longer have any joint pain in my hands.

[ultraslacker]

wow, so far it's 100% in favour!

I should try it...

[Gummivore]

wow, so far it's 100% in favour!

I should try it...

Btw, I buy my glucosamine from Costco. Find that to be the cheapest. How about everybody else?

SB

[ultraslacker]

wow, so far it's 100% in favour!

I should try it...

Btw, I buy my glucosamine from Costco. Find that to be the cheapest. How about everybody else?

SB

don't have a costco card. :(

i'll see how much it is at the drugstore today.

[Doonst]

I've been taking it for several years, for my knee. Just as Mike said, stopping brings symptoms back. I take the full dose, but only use straight glucosamine. I read one study that indicated that the condroitin helped mostly older and arthritic patients.

[J-D]

I usually take the Glocos/Chond/ AND MSN blend, i have read a lot of this stuff from climbing articles that the three together will have the best absorption. I ususally get it at London Drugs (Weber product); stock up when they have a 2 for 1 deal.

[Gummivore]

I usually take the Glocos/Chond/ AND MSN blend, i have read a lot of this stuff from climbing articles that the three together will have the best absorption. I ususally get it at London Drugs (Weber product); stock up when they have a 2 for 1 deal.

What's MSN?

SB

[caro]

I have just recently started taking it--500mg 3xday. My knee pain seems to be going down but that could be due to physio too.

I usually pick it up at Walmart or the Superstore since I don't have a costco card either.

[J-D]

I usually take the Glocos/Chond/ AND MSN blend, i have read a lot of this stuff from climbing articles that the three together will have the best absorption. I ususally get it at London Drugs (Weber product); stock up when they have a 2 for 1 deal.

What's MSN?

SB

Oooops... sorry meant to type MSM

I found the following on another website, it explains it better than I can.

What is MSM?

(Methylsulfonylmethane) - is a naturally occurring sulfur compound found within our bodies. It is a safe and natural, assimilable food derived from the ocean. MSM is neither a medicine, drug, chemical, herb, stimulant, synthetic food or additive. It is a member of the sulfur family but should never be confused with sulfa drugs, to which some people are allergic. It is completely safe, odorless, and non-toxic. A 160 pound man has approximately 4 pounds of sulfur as body weight. MSM is a natural organic compound. It occurs naturally in the foods we eat but disappears when we process our food

Dietary MSM
MSM is a natural form of organic sulfur found in all living organisms, including human body fluids and tissues. Sulfur is one of the most basic building blocks of the structure of the body. MSM facilitates the exchange of oxygen, carbon dioxide and nutrients, which promote the healing process of skin. MSM is a bioavailable source of dietary sulfur contributing essential sulfur for the synthesis of proteins, hormones, connective tissue, and enzymes. As a central component of collagen, sulfur assists the body in preventing inflammation and facilitating repair of connective tissues.

MSM is more beneficial when taken with a complete Vitamin C whole food complex (MSM Magic or Ultra Anti-Oxidant C), which is known to be essential for synthesis of connective tissue, enhancing the absorption and utilization of MSM.



sorry again for the typo

[Size5]

Quote from Uptodate an online service I subscribe to for work....

MODULATION OF CARTILAGE CONSTITUENTS — Attempts have been made to affect glycosaminoglycan and proteoglycan constituents of articular cartilage by intraarticular injection of glycosaminoglycan polysulfate injections in patients with patellofemoral pain syndrome and the use of oral glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate in patients with nonspecific arthritis.

Orally administered glucosamine, chondroitin sulfate, and the combination of glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate, do not appear to be significantly more efficacious than placebo. This was illustrated in a study, presented in abstract form, that randomly assigned 1583 patient with painful OA of the knee to one of three groups: placebo, glucosamine HCL (500 mg three time daily), chondroitin sulfate (400 mg three time daily), glucosamine plus chondroitin sulfate (500 mg + 400 mg three time daily), or celecoxib 200 mg/day [12]. Treatment was continued for 24 weeks, at which time there was no significant difference in the proportion of patients who had at least a 20 percent decrease in pain (a predetermined response) when placebo, glucosamine, chondroitin sulfate, and combination groups were compared. The proportion of patients who responded to celecoxib was significantly greater than placebo (70 versus 60 percent, respectively). Adverse events were evenly distributed among the groups.



Those with shelfish allergies are also cautioned against taking glucosamine

1500+ people is a pretty large study....

S5

S

[Size5]

From the Cochrane Database a meta-analysis on Glucosamine...

Objectives
To review all randomized controlled trials (RCTs) evaluating the effectiveness and toxicity of glucosamine in OA.


Search strategy
We searched MEDLINE, PREMEDLINE, EMBASE, AMED, ACP Journal Club, DARE, CDSR, and CENTRAL. We also wrote letters to content experts, and hand searched reference lists of identified RCTs and pertinent review articles. All searches were updated in January 2005.


Selection criteria
Relevant studies met the following criteria: 1) RCTs evaluating the effectiveness and safety of glucosamine in OA, 2) Both placebo controlled and comparative studies were eligible, 3) Both single blinded and double blinded studies were eligible.


Data collection and analysis
Data abstraction was performed independently by two investigators and the results were compared for degree of agreement. Gotzsche's method and a validated tool (Jadad 1996) were used to score the quality of the RCTs. Continuous outcome measures were pooled using standardized mean differences (SMD) as the measure of effect size. Dichotomous outcome measures were pooled using relative risk ratios (RR).


Main results
Analysis restricted to eight studies with adequate allocation concealment failed to show benefit of glucosamine for pain and WOMAC function. Collectively, the 20 analyzed RCTs found glucosamine favoured placebo with a 28% (change from baseline) improvement in pain (SMD -0.61, 95% CI -0.95, -0.28) and a 21% (change from baseline) improvement in function using the Lequesne index (SMD -0.51 95% CI -0.96, -0.05). However, the results are not uniformly positive, and the reasons for this remain unexplained. WOMAC pain, function and stiffness outcomes did not reach statistical significance.

In the 10 RCTs in which the Rotta preparation of glucosamine was compared to placebo, glucosamine was found to be superior for pain (SMD -1.31, 95% CI -1.99, -0.64) and function using the Lequesne index (SMD -0.51, 95% CI -0.96, -0.05). Pooled results for pain (SMD -0.15, 95% CI -0.35, 0.05) and function using the WOMAC index (SMD 0.03, 95% CI -0.18, 0.25) in those RCTs in which a non-Rotta preparation of glucosamine was compared to placebo did not reach statistical significance. In the four RCTs in which the Rotta preparation of glucosamine was compared to an NSAID, glucosamine was superior in two, and equivalent in two. Two RCTs using the Rotta preparation showed that glucosamine was able to slow radiological progression of OA of the knee over a three year period (SMD 0.24, 95% CI 0.04, 0.43).

Size5's Summary: In this meta analysis a number of studies were grouped together and statistically analyzed to see if Glucosamine was an effective pain reliever. Using a specific preperation of Glucosamine (rotta) there appeared to be decent PAIN RELIEF for those with arthritis of the knee.

So folks it depends.... looks like it is helpful with pain, unkonwn if it helps prevent further degeneration....

S5

[Jwolf]

I take 1x900gm a day (1/3 recommended dosage because I'm a cheap ****) and I do have way less joint problems compared to this time last year. Though, it could also be that I'm stronger ... It doesn't hurt taking it I figure (Dr. Marathoner Wolf, wanna weigh in?)

Well, Steve... I'm not expert for sure... but as far as I know it certainly doesn't hurt to take glucosamine... your body will just metabolize it naturally if you don't need it, and it's not paticularly taxing on your system.

As for whether it helps... I think if you actually have cartilage/joint damage or the tendency for this type of damage, then it helps. Some people may not know if they're in this camp or not. There is some evidence that there's some preventative value. If you have a family history of arthritis, then certainly it would be a good idea. It didn't help my knee pain because it was caused only by the quad muscles.

[CinC]

i don't know how much this will help the arguement, but we used to give it to our older Golden Retriever to help with his hips....based on the advice of our vet.

so, it's good for the dogs, must be good for you...

haven't taken it myself, as I don't really suffer from any joint pain....not yet anyway

[KBO]

I'm convinced....going out to buy a BIG bottle this weekend....

I got into the elevator at work the other day and my knees were poppin' and crackin' (no pain at all). Everytime I shifted my weight, pop pop crack crack...everyone was lookin' at me.

Karen

[getfit]

I tried taking it once, back a few months ago. The following day my blood pressure was through the roof and my husband took me to emerg. They tested me for a whole bunch of stuff and asked if I was taking any medication. The only thing I had taken was 1 glucasomine tablet the day before. I am not allergic to shellfish, so the whole thing is quite bizarre. I never did find out for sure if it was the glucosamine that affected my blood pressure. My doctor says I could try it again to be sure, but I'm a bit scared. My blood pressure returned to normal a few days later.

Joanne

[Dani]

I do it. It works for me.
Chewables only though. I am lousy at swallowing pills.

[DougG]

This is great to read. I started on it a few weeks ago for my knee. I'm very encouraged by the positive effects many of you experience from it!

[pHiLLiPs12]

it gives me a stomach ache everytime

so to be sure klewlis not all can take it

doug

[ultraslacker]

it gives me a stomach ache everytime :(

so to be sure klewlis not all can take it

doug

do you take it with food?

[BJH]

I do it. It works for me.
Chewables only though. I am lousy at swallowing pills.

Are the chewables widely available?

I take Centrum Silver, not becasue I'm old but because they are the best adult multi that comes in chewable form.