Lance steps down from Livestrong, dropped by Nike

[HCcD]

I run on a Livestrong TM. I'm not taking it back. I don't care who's name or what name is on it. It was the right price at the right time.

Where'd you get yours? I'm in the market for a new dreadmill.

Canadian Tire has them on sale for 60% off right now (at least in Winnipeg they do).

Looked them up - they've been on "sale" for those prices since at least February (one review mentions the identical prices). So no special anti-Lance discount just yet.

Will let people know if the prices drop. DH sells through his company. They will continue to sell livestrong as long as Nike supports at this time. That was the message as of yesterday. If Nike pulls support they will pull immediately.

Hey Tori, check out your DH Company's website ... they appear to be now supporting the Pink Ribbon Movement a lot more ...

eta: Been noticing some lightly used Livestrong TMs on local classifieds for pretty cheap prices, as compared to the msrp listing ....

[Tori]

I run on a Livestrong TM. I'm not taking it back. I don't care who's name or what name is on it. It was the right price at the right time.

Where'd you get yours? I'm in the market for a new dreadmill.

Canadian Tire has them on sale for 60% off right now (at least in Winnipeg they do).

Looked them up - they've been on "sale" for those prices since at least February (one review mentions the identical prices). So no special anti-Lance discount just yet.

Will let people know if the prices drop. DH sells through his company. They will continue to sell livestrong as long as Nike supports at this time. That was the message as of yesterday. If Nike pulls support they will pull immediately.

Hey Tori, check out your DH Company's website ... they appear to be now supporting the Pink Ribbon Movement a lot more ...

eta: Been noticing some lightly used Livestrong TMs on local classifieds for pretty cheap prices, as compared to the msrp listing ....

I was hoping they were going to slash the costs and I could stock up on some nice equipment for the basement. Yes lots of pink ribbon stuff, he was sending me pics of some super sweet pink asics this week.

[HCcD]

I run on a Livestrong TM. I'm not taking it back. I don't care who's name or what name is on it. It was the right price at the right time.

Where'd you get yours? I'm in the market for a new dreadmill.

Canadian Tire has them on sale for 60% off right now (at least in Winnipeg they do).

Looked them up - they've been on "sale" for those prices since at least February (one review mentions the identical prices). So no special anti-Lance discount just yet.

Will let people know if the prices drop. DH sells through his company. They will continue to sell livestrong as long as Nike supports at this time. That was the message as of yesterday. If Nike pulls support they will pull immediately.

Hey Tori, check out your DH Company's website ... they appear to be now supporting the Pink Ribbon Movement a lot more ...

eta: Been noticing some lightly used Livestrong TMs on local classifieds for pretty cheap prices, as compared to the msrp listing ....

I was hoping they were going to slash the costs and I could stock up on some nice equipment for the basement. Yes lots of pink ribbon stuff, he was sending me pics of some super sweet pink asics this week.

The Kanata location had some really great clearout prices on the Livestrong TM and Spin Bike floor models, last time I was there ... wonder if they are still there ??

[VeloCarrie]

Why don't you ask people who have had cancer?

Livestrong helped me two years ago when I was diagnosed with a rare cancer. Other typical websites gave me a one or two page summary. Livestrong gave me the most information, plus I got to talk to someone (with a similar form of cancer) through e-mail for a couple of weeks regarding treatment options and how they would affect how I wanted to live my life. I didn't contact them because of Lance, but they were there when I needed them in the way I needed at that time. Sometimes "awareness" is what a cancer patient needs, especially one that doesn't have the more "common" cancers.

[turd ferguson]

Why don't you ask people who have had cancer?

A few of us did in the other thread (including myself who spoke on behalf of my father who got great support from Livestrong as well before he died) and the response was exactly what you'd expect.

Don't get me wrong - I have a ton of respect for what they do. But I think they're finished.

[VeloCarrie]

Why don't you ask people who have had cancer?

A few of us did in the other thread (including myself who spoke on behalf of my father who got great support from Livestrong as well before he died) and the response was exactly what you'd expect.

Don't get me wrong - I have a ton of respect for what they do. But I think they're finished.

Maybe that's the most tragic of all of this.

[eme]

Why don't you ask people who have had cancer?

A few of us did in the other thread (including myself who spoke on behalf of my father who got great support from Livestrong as well before he died) and the response was exactly what you'd expect.

Don't get me wrong - I have a ton of respect for what they do. But I think they're finished.

Maybe that's the most tragic of all of this.

Very true. It is too bad that the 'brand' of Livestrong was so tied to Lance Armstrong and will most likely be forever tainted by it.

Most people, think Livestrong=Lance

[Dstew]

Why don't you ask people who have had cancer?

Livestrong helped me two years ago when I was diagnosed with a rare cancer. Other typical websites gave me a one or two page summary. Livestrong gave me the most information, plus I got to talk to someone (with a similar form of cancer) through e-mail for a couple of weeks regarding treatment options and how they would affect how I wanted to live my life. I didn't contact them because of Lance, but they were there when I needed them in the way I needed at that time. Sometimes "awareness" is what a cancer patient needs, especially one that doesn't have the more "common" cancers.

Thank for your post as I had been trying to illustrate to the hero worshipers who felt "betrayed" by Lance after it turned out he was human and cloaking their arguments in terms of "integrity" and "honor" and "ethics" when if the truth be known it appears they are merely lashing out because they are emotionally hurt. That even though Lance is may be a scum bag, that he profited from his association with Cancer that the organization has and can continue to do good things. That compared to individuals such as you, if Lance's name can still bring a net positive benefit, who cares other than again people with a visceral emotional reaction to their own personal disappointment instead of looking at the bigger picture.

On a related note, the rough model is 10% of people will never compromise their ethics, 10% will do so at any opportunity with motive and 80% or so use situational ethics. If you have taken one pen from work, you fall into the 80% so self serving and self righteous positions just are not realistic. So one can sit back with smug self satisfaction that typing on their little keyboards some how will protect triathlons or charities can completely disregard the good that has been done and can be done is something I have to comment on. When my dad was going through his battle with cancer, I could not have cared less who was helping with the support and so it is very easy to make anonymous judgements about right or wrong with the world is full of grey.

[jonovision_man]

Most tend to look down on profiteering from charities, I'm generally still against it. Your mileage may vary.

jono

Did you have that view when you did not think Lance was guilty of doping?

In general yes. I wasn't aware of the Livestrong situation until more recently, I was under the impression it was all nonprofit. I'd bet most people still are unaware.

jono

So it only bothers you when you are aware of a practice - a practice in which a number of smaller charities have to hire professional fund raiser to increase the amount of money that they get. Or is it only bad when a bad person benefits or is it wrong all of the time.

Are you often bothered by things you are not aware of?

jono

[DougG]

I understand that should Lance be stripped of his titles, none of the top 3 finishers in any of those Tours tested clean.
If pretty well everyone is (seemingly) taking some kind of PED, is it cheating?
What is the definition of a cheater?

[RobAllen]

I understand that should Lance be stripped of his titles, none of the top 3 finishers in any of those Tours tested clean.

Yes, most have been caught at some time. But they were not all caught at the time they got 2nd/3rd so their result stands. Much like Contador tested positive but still retains his results from the TdeF prior to the positive.
Lance is being stripped of his titles for many reasons. 1) The evidence spans all of the tour victories, 2) He is charged with much more than just doping and 3) He chose not to cooperate with the investigation.

If pretty well everyone is (seemingly) taking some kind of PED, is it cheating?:

Yes. Argue it any way you want but Scott Mercier lost his bright future because he refused to dope. He was cheated by the cheaters.

[Wu wei]

I understand that should Lance be stripped of his titles, none of the top 3 finishers in any of those Tours tested clean.
If pretty well everyone is (seemingly) taking some kind of PED, is it cheating?
What is the definition of a cheater?

Cheating is breaking the rules.

Everyone was doing it is a logical fallacy.
It's not what you were doing relative to others, it's what you were doing relative to the rules.

But if it makes you feel better, almost everyone were popped for doping too. The last 20 years of cycling has been a disgrace.

[turd ferguson]

I understand that should Lance be stripped of his titles, none of the top 3 finishers in any of those Tours tested clean.
If pretty well everyone is (seemingly) taking some kind of PED, is it cheating?
What is the definition of a cheater?

Definitely cheating.

Any lack of outrage you feel might be because, even though it was cheating, it wasn't terribly unfair to the other doping competitors. Though as was pointed out above, the whole thing was unfair to any rider who wanted to ride clean.

[DougG]

I understand that should Lance be stripped of his titles, none of the top 3 finishers in any of those Tours tested clean.
If pretty well everyone is (seemingly) taking some kind of PED, is it cheating?
What is the definition of a cheater?

Cheating is breaking the rules.

Everyone was doing it is a logical fallacy.
It's not what you were doing relative to others, it's what you were doing relative to the rules.

But if it makes you feel better, almost everyone were popped for doping too. The last 20 years of cycling has been a disgrace.

It doesn't make me feel any better, I really don't care. From what I read, it does seem the past 20 years have been awful for the sport, although one could argue that with the publicity, the crowds and the money could make one say otherwise. So, you feel that breaking the rules means you are cheating?
Breaking any rules? Or just certain rules?
What if the breaking a certain rule is 'accepted' by the majority of competitors?

[Wu wei]

It doesn't make me feel any better, I really don't care. From what I read, it does seem the past 20 years have been awful for the sport, although one could argue that with the publicity, the crowds and the money could make one say otherwise. So, you feel that breaking the rules means you are cheating?
Breaking any rules? Or just certain rules?
What if the breaking a certain rule is 'accepted' by the majority of competitors?

I'll just keep copy and pasting this until it sinks in:
It's not what you were doing relative to others, it's what you were doing relative to the rules.

[DougG]

I'll just keep copy and pasting this until it sinks in:

Excuse me?

You made your point the first time. Thanks for your input.
I am asking questions and am interested in others' opinions. I trust that sunk in.

[HCcD]

I'll just keep copy and pasting this until it sinks in:

Excuse me?

You made your point the first time.
I am asking questions and am interested in others' opinions. Did that sink in?

Difference between rules and laws .... It's all relative, right ???

http://www.differencebetween.net/language/difference-between-rules-and-laws/

[Wu wei]

I'll just keep copy and pasting this until it sinks in:

Excuse me?

You made your point the first time. Thanks for your input.
I am asking questions and am interested in others' opinions. I trust that sunk in.

I pointed out the logical fallacy, then you ask the same question, in a different way. It's still the same fallacy!

So you want rationalize that it's ok to dope, because everyone else was doing it. I'll go there...
Now imagine YOU are a professional cyclist, and you've been caught doing EPO.
You lie and lie and lie when popped, rationalizing that everybody else was doing it... it's unfair that you've been caught. Eventually you are sanctioned as a drug cheat.
Your conscience tells you that speaking the truth might be the best way forward, and so you write a booke outlining your experience in the hope that other cyclists might not rationalize the cheating like you did.
Now tell me... would that make you a "big time weasel", or not?

[Jwolf]

I'll just keep copy and pasting this until it sinks in:

Excuse me?

You made your point the first time. Thanks for your input.
I am asking questions and am interested in others' opinions. I trust that sunk in.

I think Mike said it best:

Any lack of outrage you feel might be because, even though it was cheating, it wasn't terribly unfair to the other doping competitors. Though as was pointed out above, the whole thing was unfair to any rider who wanted to ride clean.

You can never say "everyone was doing it" to justify breaking the rules. Because there will always be people who do the right thing, and in the case of cycling, that meant they didn't compete (or did but not at a high level).

[Dstew]

Most tend to look down on profiteering from charities, I'm generally still against it. Your mileage may vary.

jono

Did you have that view when you did not think Lance was guilty of doping?

In general yes. I wasn't aware of the Livestrong situation until more recently, I was under the impression it was all nonprofit. I'd bet most people still are unaware.

jono

So it only bothers you when you are aware of a practice - a practice in which a number of smaller charities have to hire professional fund raiser to increase the amount of money that they get. Or is it only bad when a bad person benefits or is it wrong all of the time.

Are you often bothered by things you are not aware of?

jono

I just assumed that someone who demands the highest integrity from race organizers, charities, people who give to charities would have taken the time to investigate that organization they support. You have essentially stated, as a self appointed defender of the integrity of the sport that a race director cannot say, "I do not know or care what Lance is alleged to have done, all I know is that he brings more attention to my event", that this will lead to the collapse of civilization but those same standards do not apply to you. Just find it curious is all.

I also noticed you did not address the issue of professional fund raisers as Lance is frankly no different in practice. They raise money for a charity and get a cut, so did Lance. In fact, one can say without Lance there was no charity so why not get a even bigger cut than if the organization had hired a professional fund raiser. So I also assume the powers you have to protect the integrity of sport flow over to charities as well so you get to determine what is an acceptable way to raise money and awareness and what methods are bad regardless of the outcome. And once again, he is a scum bag by all accounts and deserves every sanction known to man kind with regards to his sport but with the charity, he provided a service, hundreds of millions of dollars were raised and so we go after him for something that he actually did to help others and to go after a service that has made a difference in people's lives just so your desire for revenge and a pound of flesh from your fallen hero can be satisfied.

[Habs4ever]

I run on a Livestrong TM. I'm not taking it back. I don't care who's name or what name is on it. It was the right price at the right time.

Where'd you get yours? I'm in the market for a new dreadmill.

Canadian Tire has them on sale for 60% off right now (at least in Winnipeg they do).

Looked them up - they've been on "sale" for those prices since at least February (one review mentions the identical prices). So no special anti-Lance discount just yet.

Yes, Canadian Tire. They are made by Horizon, with the Livestrong name on it.
Seriously, you all know how much I run on it in the winter months and have had no problems at all.

[jonovision_man]

I just assumed that someone who demands the highest integrity from race organizers, charities, people who give to charities would have taken the time to investigate that organization they support. You have essentially stated, as a self appointed defender of the integrity of the sport that a race director cannot say, "I do not know or care what Lance is alleged to have done, all I know is that he brings more attention to my event", that this will lead to the collapse of civilization but those same standards do not apply to you. Just find it curious is all.

You've put a lot of words in my mouth there...

I certainly have never said anything about expecting "race directors" to investigate every nuance of the Lance Armstrong case. They all know that USADA has banned Lance from participation - that's not news to anyone - and if they're not sanctioned and don't respect the ban, then that's their own choice to make. It's hardly the collapse of civilization, although it does show a particular lack of principles I wouldn't find appealing.

jono

[Wu wei]

I heard this story directly from a participant in this ride many years ago.
Heard a similar story from a participant in the Calgary to Austin Peleton Project.

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-860283

[drghfx]

I heard this story directly from a participant in this ride many years ago.
Heard a similar story from a participant in the Calgary to Austin Peleton Project.

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-860283

Well, if true, no wonder he could work for free for Livestrong.

[jonovision_man]

If you want all the dirt... hit cyclingnews.com forums, especially "the clinic".

They may sound a touch out there, but they're right more than wrong....

jono