Report: Lance considering confession

[jonovision_man]

Bruyneel "Ready to Cooperate"... Waits until the writing is on the wall, then confesses. Sounds familiar?
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bruynee ... estigators

Admissions from Rabobank riders:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nelisse ... t-rabobank
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/doping- ... mas-dekker

It'll be nice when this all calms down and I can go to Cycling News without half the stories being about doping! Maybe when spring classics season starts we'll start moving on?

And my wife suggested I watch this. Oddly related.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwkU8-d1gIk

jono

[La]

I've spoken to a few people who have not followed this saga as closely as many of the people on RM and what I've found interesting is that for the most part their response is..."so he cheated...big deal...leave the guy alone"

The problem is he didn't just cheat. He hurt so many people in the process and contributed hugely to the lack of integrity in the entire sport of pro-cycling. He also participated in essentially large-scale financial fraud and deception. Until he makes attempts to right those wrongs, he won't and shouldn't be left alone. It's not like the Olympic athlete who used drugs, got caught, and gets stripped of medals-- it goes so much further than that.

Maybe so, but how does that affect any of us?

[MINITEE]

I've spoken to a few people who have not followed this saga as closely as many of the people on RM and what I've found interesting is that for the most part their response is..."so he cheated...big deal...leave the guy alone"

The problem is he didn't just cheat. He hurt so many people in the process and contributed hugely to the lack of integrity in the entire sport of pro-cycling. He also participated in essentially large-scale financial fraud and deception. Until he makes attempts to right those wrongs, he won't and shouldn't be left alone. It's not like the Olympic athlete who used drugs, got caught, and gets stripped of medals-- it goes so much further than that.

Maybe so, but how does that affect any of us?

for me, it comes down to being "duped" and seeing someone that you looked up to (the philanthropist part of him) and finding out he is NOT a nice person.
Yes.. it does take a certain person to push that hard and win that much, and have that drive. But you really wanted to think that the person outside of the race was not such a devious, bullying person who really hurt and let down a lot of his friends.

[Jwolf]

I've spoken to a few people who have not followed this saga as closely as many of the people on RM and what I've found interesting is that for the most part their response is..."so he cheated...big deal...leave the guy alone"

The problem is he didn't just cheat. He hurt so many people in the process and contributed hugely to the lack of integrity in the entire sport of pro-cycling. He also participated in essentially large-scale financial fraud and deception. Until he makes attempts to right those wrongs, he won't and shouldn't be left alone. It's not like the Olympic athlete who used drugs, got caught, and gets stripped of medals-- it goes so much further than that.

Maybe so, but how does that affect any of us?

for me, it comes down to being "duped" and seeing someone that you looked up to (the philanthropist part of him) and finding out he is NOT a nice person.
Yes.. it does take a certain person to push that hard and win that much, and have that drive. But you really wanted to think that the person outside of the race was not such a devious, bullying person who really hurt and let down a lot of his friends.

Yeah, I would say that as a supposed leader in the sports community he let a lot of people down. I don't think it necessarily has to affect us directly for us to be concerned about it. But I would argue there are trickle-down ramifications even into our recreational sports communities.

But my comment up there was mostly responding to Jo-Jo's observation that many people think he is being treated unfairly.

[alexk]

I think Lance should now be added to the things not to discuss at a dinner party (along w/ politics and religion). I had dinner w/ a close group of friends the other night and was shocked at how heated the discussion got and how completely differently people viewed the situation (and how many people didn't see much wrong in what he did).

Guess we all look at the world through a different lense.

[Jo-Jo]

But my comment up there was mostly responding to Jo-Jo's observation that many people think he is being treated unfairly.

I would venture to say that most people I've talked to haven't even put that much thought in to pondering whether he's been treated unfairly. It's more a ..."he cheated...so what" reaction.

I suspect this is due to the fact that Lance Armstrong may not have been much interest to them when he was winning the Tour...and he may not be of much interest to them now.

At least that's how I'm interpreting their lack of indignation about his cheating, lyng and bullying.

[Jo-Jo]

I think Lance should now be added to the things not to discuss at a dinner party (along w/ politics and religion). I had dinner w/ a close group of friends the other night and was shocked at how heated the discussion got and how completely differently people viewed the situation (and how many people didn't see much wrong in what he did).

Guess we all look at the world through a different lense.

Good one Alex...yep...you may be right

[jonovision_man]

I think Lance should now be added to the things not to discuss at a dinner party (along w/ politics and religion). I had dinner w/ a close group of friends the other night and was shocked at how heated the discussion got and how completely differently people viewed the situation (and how many people didn't see much wrong in what he did).

Guess we all look at the world through a different lense.

Unfortunately for many years the "lenses" of the general public was largely molded by the Lance PR machine.

But I can't believe anyone could have watched that interview and come away with a favorable opinion of the guy... either people weren't watching or have acute cognitive dissonance.

jono

[La]

But I can't believe anyone could have watched that interview and come away with a favorable opinion of the guy... either people weren't watching or have acute cognitive dissonance.

Due to the phenomenon of confirmation bias, people who watched the interview came away with an opinion roughly along the same lines of what it was when they went in.

[jonovision_man]

But I can't believe anyone could have watched that interview and come away with a favorable opinion of the guy... either people weren't watching or have acute cognitive dissonance.

Due to the phenomenon of confirmation bias, people who watched the interview came away with an opinion roughly along the same lines of what it was when they went in.

Agreed... seems like the only people still sticking with him are those who have invested the most of themselves in the guy. The general public mostly *finally * sees through him.

That being said - there are a lot of defenders who have come around, including on this forum! Just not quite all...

jono

[La]

But I can't believe anyone could have watched that interview and come away with a favorable opinion of the guy... either people weren't watching or have acute cognitive dissonance.

Due to the phenomenon of confirmation bias, people who watched the interview came away with an opinion roughly along the same lines of what it was when they went in.

Agreed... seems like the only people still sticking with him are those who have invested the most of themselves in the guy. The general public mostly *finally * sees through him.

That being said - there are a lot of defenders who have come around, including on this forum! Just not quite all...

Come around to what? Your way of thinking?

I'm not an apologist or a defender. I'm also not a member of the lynch mob.

[Jo-Jo]

But I can't believe anyone could have watched that interview and come away with a favorable opinion of the guy... either people weren't watching or have acute cognitive dissonance.

Due to the phenomenon of confirmation bias, people who watched the interview came away with an opinion roughly along the same lines of what it was when they went in.

Agreed... seems like the only people still sticking with him are those who have invested the most of themselves in the guy. The general public mostly *finally * sees through him.

That being said - there are a lot of defenders who have come around, including on this forum! Just not quite all...

Come around to what? Your way of thinking?

I'm not an apologist or a defender. I'm also not a member of the lynch mob.

+1 to what La said.

[jamix]

I think Lance should now be added to the things not to discuss at a dinner party (along w/ politics and religion). I had dinner w/ a close group of friends the other night and was shocked at how heated the discussion got and how completely differently people viewed the situation (and how many people didn't see much wrong in what he did).

Guess we all look at the world through a different lense.

That's for sure. We watched the interview during my friends B-day. Some of the gals were making some of the typical LA insults and it was really annoying. Luckily there wasn't any arguing since I've learned awhile ago that sometimes its just better to keep your mouth shut.

[jonovision_man]

But I can't believe anyone could have watched that interview and come away with a favorable opinion of the guy... either people weren't watching or have acute cognitive dissonance.

Due to the phenomenon of confirmation bias, people who watched the interview came away with an opinion roughly along the same lines of what it was when they went in.

Agreed... seems like the only people still sticking with him are those who have invested the most of themselves in the guy. The general public mostly *finally * sees through him.

That being said - there are a lot of defenders who have come around, including on this forum! Just not quite all...

Come around to what? Your way of thinking?

I'm not an apologist or a defender. I'm also not a member of the lynch mob.

Come around to realizing Lance is a pretty lousy guy who is still lying about a lot of things and deserves the ban he received. I'd say most people now see that, even if they're "not a member of the lynch mob".

jono

[HCcD]

But I can't believe anyone could have watched that interview and come away with a favorable opinion of the guy... either people weren't watching or have acute cognitive dissonance.

Due to the phenomenon of confirmation bias, people who watched the interview came away with an opinion roughly along the same lines of what it was when they went in.

Agreed... seems like the only people still sticking with him are those who have invested the most of themselves in the guy. The general public mostly *finally * sees through him.

That being said - there are a lot of defenders who have come around, including on this forum! Just not quite all...

Come around to what? Your way of thinking?

I'm not an apologist or a defender. I'm also not a member of the lynch mob.

Come around to realizing Lance is a pretty lousy guy who is still lying about a lot of things and deserves the ban he received. I'd say most people now see that, even if they're "not a member of the lynch mob".

jono

I've always believed that he was "guilty" of doping and being an arrogant @$$hole, but he still was the best one at it, than the rest who were side-by-side of him for all those years ... love him or hate him, he sure made a lot of memorable memories watching him in the TdF ... Still find it amazing how he/they were able to keep this under wraps for so many years, with so many people involved ...

As mentioned before, the situation is not much different than the Seoul Olympics when Ben Johnson won the 100m finals, only to be DQ'd for steroids ... and, has been noted over the years following, everyone who was in that same starting line was eventually busted for the same offence, yet only Ben Johnson was shamed ... and, yet the others just faded away .... as has been said many times, Ben was still the fastest on at Golden Day in Seoul Olympics ... beating the best of the best ....

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/04/17/1050172709693.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2003/apr/24/athletics.duncanmackay

Here is a nice perspective to think about of this whole thing .... http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-7468/lance-armstrong-is-only-human-after-all.html

[La]

But I can't believe anyone could have watched that interview and come away with a favorable opinion of the guy... either people weren't watching or have acute cognitive dissonance.

Due to the phenomenon of confirmation bias, people who watched the interview came away with an opinion roughly along the same lines of what it was when they went in.

Agreed... seems like the only people still sticking with him are those who have invested the most of themselves in the guy. The general public mostly *finally * sees through him.

That being said - there are a lot of defenders who have come around, including on this forum! Just not quite all...

Come around to what? Your way of thinking?

I'm not an apologist or a defender. I'm also not a member of the lynch mob.

Come around to realizing Lance is a pretty lousy guy who is still lying about a lot of things and deserves the ban he received. I'd say most people now see that, even if they're "not a member of the lynch mob".

See, I'd say it as "Lance is a guy who did some pretty lousy things." There's a difference.

[turd ferguson]

This is what's exhausting about the whole thing.

My perspective: he did some good things, he did some bad things. He was the fastest cheater in a very dirty period of cycling. He was a bully. He was an inspiration to a lot of cancer patients. He raised the profile of cycling in the US.

A legacy doesn't have to be black or white.

But (to use La's phrase) the lynch mob won't let the stupid thing go until everyone in earshot acknowledges that he was the worst human being that ever lived. Until everyone who ever bought a wristband cuts it up and submits photographic proof. My dog gives up on bones easier.

[Double Bellybuster]

...of course LA is going to try and discredit them...

This is not how I behave at my job. I'm guessing the same is true for most of you too.

[jonovision_man]

See, I'd say it as "Lance is a guy who did some pretty lousy things." There's a difference.

Barely. But in any case, glad you've come around.

jono

[ian]

... the lynch mob won't let the stupid thing go until ...

I'm not sure if I qualify for the lynch mob or not, but I hope the powers that be don't let this go until Lance is separated from the $100M fortune that he fraudulently accumulated. I can't imagine that any other type of white-collar criminal could expect to escape punishment by simply giving a shallow apology.

[Jwolf]

... the lynch mob won't let the stupid thing go until ...

I'm not sure if I qualify for the lynch mob or not, but I hope the powers that be don't let this go until Lance is separated from the $100M fortune that he fraudulently accumulated. I can't imagine that any other type of white-collar criminal could expect to escape punishment by simply giving a shallow apology.

+1

[fstreet]

I would say that since Lance has been stripped, and now has confessed, that my opinion of him has changed.

Prior to 2012, I'm pretty sure I saw him as just any other sleazy athlete who cheated - a guy "who did some lousy things." A Ben Johnson or Carl Lewis (imo) or whoever....

With the details essentially confirmed in 2012/2013 as to the lives he has destroyed I do agree that LA is a lousy guy.

I also admit that I would love to see him get charged with perjury and face some consequences there (probation, jail time, and/or financial), I would like to see any ban reduced only if LA provides real co-operation that goes beyond what is already known thanks to the "rats" (as LA would call them), and I would have no problem if various former sponsors/etc sue him until he is left with perhaps his last $1 or 2 million.

If it doesn't happen - meh, whatever, don't care that much.

But in the end, for me, LA has become synonymous with "douche bag extraordinaire."

[turd ferguson]

... the lynch mob won't let the stupid thing go until ...

I'm not sure if I qualify for the lynch mob or not, but I hope the powers that be don't let this go until Lance is separated from the $100M fortune that he fraudulently accumulated. I can't imagine that any other type of white-collar criminal could expect to escape punishment by simply giving a shallow apology.

I wouldn't bet on any of that happening. Lance will go on living in his big mansion around the corner from Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds.

In any event, I don't think that makes you part of the lynch mob. But if you ever start berating cancer survivors for choosing their heroes poorly, give me a call first.

[Wu wei]

... the lynch mob won't let the stupid thing go until ...

I'm not sure if I qualify for the lynch mob or not, but I hope the powers that be don't let this go until Lance is separated from the $100M fortune that he fraudulently accumulated. I can't imagine that any other type of white-collar criminal could expect to escape punishment by simply giving a shallow apology.

I wouldn't bet on any of that happening. Lance will go on living in his big mansion around the corner from Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds.

In any event, I don't think that makes you part of the lynch mob. But if you ever start berating cancer survivors for choosing their heroes poorly, give me a call first.

Lance will always be "wealthy", but I'm going to bet he loses a vast amount of his fortune in lawsuits. His lawyers are going to be tied up for years and years....

Not much else to add to the discussion at this point, except this wonderful piece written on one of the cycling blogs I follow. A good read:
http://redkiteprayer.com/2013/01/an-ope ... armstrong/

[Spirit Unleashed]

... the lynch mob won't let the stupid thing go until ...

I'm not sure if I qualify for the lynch mob or not, but I hope the powers that be don't let this go until Lance is separated from the $100M fortune that he fraudulently accumulated. I can't imagine that any other type of white-collar criminal could expect to escape punishment by simply giving a shallow apology.

bankers and fund managers get away all the time. Why not Lance?