The don'ts of triathlon swimming

[Wu wei]

I was lurking over on Slowtwitch and saw this posted... awesome advice:
http://tower26.com/dont-do-these-in-triathlon-swimming/

[carm]

That's a neat blog entry but why are they so anti-breathe every 3rd stroke? When I'm working hard (sprinting) or encounter waves or splashy people, I'll breathe every 2nd or to the opposite side of the obstacle but when I'm in a steady groove, I breathe every 3rd naturally. What's wrong with this?

[Wu wei]

That's a neat blog entry but why are they so anti-breathe every 3rd stroke? When I'm working hard (sprinting) or encounter waves or splashy people, I'll breathe every 2nd or to the opposite side of the obstacle but when I'm in a steady groove, I breathe every 3rd naturally. What's wrong with this?

I think Gerry responded directly to that on Slowtwitch. Simply... more oxygen.
You need more air if you want to go faster.
Every 3rd is probably "natural" as that is the way you've trained.

[carm]

That's a neat blog entry but why are they so anti-breathe every 3rd stroke? When I'm working hard (sprinting) or encounter waves or splashy people, I'll breathe every 2nd or to the opposite side of the obstacle but when I'm in a steady groove, I breathe every 3rd naturally. What's wrong with this?

I think Gerry responded directly to that on Slowtwitch. Simply... more oxygen.
You need more air if you want to go faster.
Every 3rd is probably "natural" as that is the way you've trained.

Makes sense. Given that I'm racing sprint tris this summer, I will undoubtedly be breathing more frequently than every 3rd during those races.

[Wu wei]

That's a neat blog entry but why are they so anti-breathe every 3rd stroke? When I'm working hard (sprinting) or encounter waves or splashy people, I'll breathe every 2nd or to the opposite side of the obstacle but when I'm in a steady groove, I breathe every 3rd naturally. What's wrong with this?

I think Gerry responded directly to that on Slowtwitch. Simply... more oxygen.
You need more air if you want to go faster.
Every 3rd is probably "natural" as that is the way you've trained.

Makes sense. Given that I'm racing sprint tris this summer, I will undoubtedly be breathing more frequently than every 3rd during those races.

I breath unilaterally for all race distances, including Ironman.
Open water 10/25k swimmers breath unilaterally. It's not just for short distances...

You have to train unilaterally if you plan to race that way though...

[carm]

That's a neat blog entry but why are they so anti-breathe every 3rd stroke? When I'm working hard (sprinting) or encounter waves or splashy people, I'll breathe every 2nd or to the opposite side of the obstacle but when I'm in a steady groove, I breathe every 3rd naturally. What's wrong with this?

I think Gerry responded directly to that on Slowtwitch. Simply... more oxygen.
You need more air if you want to go faster.
Every 3rd is probably "natural" as that is the way you've trained.

Makes sense. Given that I'm racing sprint tris this summer, I will undoubtedly be breathing more frequently than every 3rd during those races.

I breath unilaterally for all race distances, including Ironman.
Open water 10/25k swimmers breath unilaterally. It's not just for short distances...

You have to train unilaterally if you plan to race that way though...

Thanks for the info. That's interesting to find out.

[IronGoddess]

I breath every 5th stroke. I have tried less but I feel like it is too often. I guess I need to work on that. But it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks.lol

[Jwolf]

I've just now gotten used to bilateral breathing. My coach says it's better for proper body position. I guess if I wanted to work on speed drills for getting faster and racing I'd want to do more practice with unilateral breathing but still using both sides.

[Wu wei]

I breath every 5th stroke. I have tried less but I feel like it is too often. I guess I need to work on that. But it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks.lol

Every 5th stroke is hypoxic swimming. Are you trying to get in too much air with each breathe and exhaling slowly maybe?

[marymac442]

I have horrible cardio swimming so I have to breath every 2nd stroke or I will pass out. I have worked to try to equalize my body position so that I am able to breath on my non-dominant side if necessary and to stream-line my body position better.

[ROW]

I find about breathing every 2 or 3 a more personal thing for swimming, even in open water. I see some fast swimmers (16 min 1500s) breathe every 2. But some also breathe every 3. Personally I breathe every 3 in the pool and open water. I feel a lot more efficient and more balanced. I also have a better body roll.

[Wu wei]

I find about breathing every 2 or 3 a more personal thing for swimming, even in open water. I see some fast swimmers (16 min 1500s) breathe every 2. But some also breathe every 3. Personally I breathe every 3 in the pool and open water. I feel a lot more efficient and more balanced. I also have a better body roll.

Efficient and more balanced is great, but would you prefer to go faster?

EDIT: There seems to be a general assumption that efficiency/balance and unilateral breathing are mutually exclusive here.

[ROW]

I find about breathing every 2 or 3 a more personal thing for swimming, even in open water. I see some fast swimmers (16 min 1500s) breathe every 2. But some also breathe every 3. Personally I breathe every 3 in the pool and open water. I feel a lot more efficient and more balanced. I also have a better body roll.

Efficient and more balanced is great, but would you prefer to go faster?

Efficiency is faster. And its not like I am a age grouper triathlete swimming a couple times a week. I consider myself to have quite a bit of experience swimming. I do swim better breathing every 3 strokes rather than every 2 from personal experience.

[Wu wei]

I find about breathing every 2 or 3 a more personal thing for swimming, even in open water. I see some fast swimmers (16 min 1500s) breathe every 2. But some also breathe every 3. Personally I breathe every 3 in the pool and open water. I feel a lot more efficient and more balanced. I also have a better body roll.

Efficient and more balanced is great, but would you prefer to go faster?

Efficiency is faster. And its not like I am a age grouper triathlete swimming a couple times a week. I consider myself to have quite a bit of experience swimming. I do swim better breathing every 3 strokes rather than every 2 from personal experience.

Faster is faster. Nothing to do with efficiency.

We're all going to be more proficient at what we practice the most.

Gerry Rodrigues has been coaching swimming professionally longer than you have been alive. I'd say he has quite a bit of experience...

[ROW]

I find about breathing every 2 or 3 a more personal thing for swimming, even in open water. I see some fast swimmers (16 min 1500s) breathe every 2. But some also breathe every 3. Personally I breathe every 3 in the pool and open water. I feel a lot more efficient and more balanced. I also have a better body roll.

Efficient and more balanced is great, but would you prefer to go faster?

Efficiency is faster. And its not like I am a age grouper triathlete swimming a couple times a week. I consider myself to have quite a bit of experience swimming. I do swim better breathing every 3 strokes rather than every 2 from personal experience.

We're all going to be more proficient at what we practice the most.

Gerry Rodrigues has been coaching swimming professionally longer than you have been alive. I'd say he has quite a bit of experience...

Well I didn't realize Gerry Rodrigues is every swimmers coach.

[Wu wei]

I find about breathing every 2 or 3 a more personal thing for swimming, even in open water. I see some fast swimmers (16 min 1500s) breathe every 2. But some also breathe every 3. Personally I breathe every 3 in the pool and open water. I feel a lot more efficient and more balanced. I also have a better body roll.

Efficient and more balanced is great, but would you prefer to go faster?

Efficiency is faster. And its not like I am a age grouper triathlete swimming a couple times a week. I consider myself to have quite a bit of experience swimming. I do swim better breathing every 3 strokes rather than every 2 from personal experience.

We're all going to be more proficient at what we practice the most.

Gerry Rodrigues has been coaching swimming professionally longer than you have been alive. I'd say he has quite a bit of experience...

Well I didn't realize Gerry Rodrigues is every swimmers coach.

Who said he is every swimmers coach?

BTW, how do you measure efficiency?

[ROW]

I find about breathing every 2 or 3 a more personal thing for swimming, even in open water. I see some fast swimmers (16 min 1500s) breathe every 2. But some also breathe every 3. Personally I breathe every 3 in the pool and open water. I feel a lot more efficient and more balanced. I also have a better body roll.

Efficient and more balanced is great, but would you prefer to go faster?

Efficiency is faster. And its not like I am a age grouper triathlete swimming a couple times a week. I consider myself to have quite a bit of experience swimming. I do swim better breathing every 3 strokes rather than every 2 from personal experience.

We're all going to be more proficient at what we practice the most.

Gerry Rodrigues has been coaching swimming professionally longer than you have been alive. I'd say he has quite a bit of experience...

Well I didn't realize Gerry Rodrigues is every swimmers coach.

Who said he is every swimmers coach?

BTW, how do you measure efficiency?

Mostly by times, and cleaner stroke.

And I am not saying breathing every 2 is bad. Just personally I don't do it and it can be different for everyone. It also depends on someone's coach too.

[Wu wei]

BTW, how do you measure efficiency?

Mostly by times, and cleaner stroke.

Times are a measure of your speed, not efficiency.

How do you measure that you have a "cleaner stroke"?

[Wu wei]

And I am not saying breathing every 2 is bad. Just personally I don't do it and it can be different for everyone. It also depends on someone's coach too.

I know that. You believe in your coach, that's important.

[ROW]

And I am not saying breathing every 2 is bad. Just personally I don't do it and it can be different for everyone. It also depends on someone's coach too.

I know that. You believe in your coach, that's important.

I am also a 200-400 free guy so breathing every 2 isn't stressed as much. But I can see where in a 1500 breathing every 2 strokes will come in. I just know that I would swim a lot slower in a 200 not breathing every 3 strokes.

[Wu wei]

And I am not saying breathing every 2 is bad. Just personally I don't do it and it can be different for everyone. It also depends on someone's coach too.

I know that. You believe in your coach, that's important.

I am also a 200-400 free guy so breathing every 2 isn't stressed as much. But I can see where in a 1500 breathing every 2 strokes will come in. I just know that I would swim a lot slower in a 200 not breathing every 3 strokes.

Well.. there is part of our disconnect.
You are training as a SWIMMER. My post refers to triathlon swimming.
Yes, there is crossover, just as there is crossover between a 200 and a 1500m pool event.
But they are not the same event.

Methods of measuring swim efficiency are largely ineffective and/or subjective.
Swim golf is the most frequently used method but anyone who's ever done it instantly knows that if they kick harder, they lower their golf score! Useless.

Therefore the only real metric that counts is time. What's the fastest way to cover the distance?
Naturally you'll be fastest using the technique you practice most because of your neuromuscular conditioning.
Does that mean it's the fastest way? For you, right now, yes.
However, does that mean there isn't a better way? Maybe, maybe not.

A couple of Don'ts from the article:

DON’T ……
5. Think any coach knows it ALL.
8. Hire a coach who can’t/won’t explain why they prescribe their training.
9. Hire a coach who thinks there is ONLY one training route (theirs) to performance.

[Jwolf]

Those are good points about the coach. My current coach is great for helping me correct by position and technique, but so far that hasn't translated appreciably to speed. I know it's only been 6 weeks, but I was led to believe (not just by him) that correcting my stroke and body position would lead to huge gains in speed. I have done well with the efficiency, that is, using less energy to cover the same distance, but I'm still painfully slow. I think the only thing that will get me faster now will be speed drills so I can get stronger and get more power with my stroke. We don't do any of that in this class.

[Wu wei]

Those are good points about the coach. My current coach is great for helping me correct by position and technique, but so far that hasn't translated appreciably to speed. I know it's only been 6 weeks, but I was led to believe (not just by him) that correcting my stroke and body position would lead to huge gains in speed. I have done well with the efficiency, that is, using less energy to cover the same distance, but I'm still painfully slow. I think the only thing that will get me faster now will be speed drills so I can get stronger and get more power with my stroke. We don't do any of that in this class.

How do you measure your efficiency and the energy you use to cover the same distance?

Efficiency is a red herring.

Let's pretend you can somehow measure efficiency accurately.
Two athletes in swim race. The more efficient athlete finished 2 mins behind the less efficient athlete.
Who won the race?

[Jwolf]

Greg, you know I'm not stupid and of course I want to get faster.
I realize that efficiency is meaningless if it doesn't translate to speed. I know it feels easier and I'm not getting as tired so I'm assuming I'm using less energy. But I'm not getting faster. Well I am, but not a lot. That's why I know that once I get the technique down I have to work on the speed in a different way.

[Wu wei]

Greg, you know I'm not stupid and of course I want to get faster.
I realize that efficiency is meaningless if it doesn't translate to speed. I know it feels easier and I'm not getting as tired so I'm assuming I'm using less energy. But I'm not getting faster. Well I am, but not a lot. That's why I know that once I get the technique down I have to work on the speed in a different way.

Jen, I know you are very bright.

I'm trying to drive home the point that "efficiency" shouldn't even enter the discussion. It's irrelevant.

Fitness and technique are built together. Fitness allows you to hold better technique which allows you to build greater fitness.