Buying your performance on the bike!!

A cozy spot for triathletes and other multi-sporters

User avatar
jamix
Bill Crothers
Posts: 1811
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:18 pm

Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby jamix » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:41 pm

Assuming one doesn't have the cash to desire purchasing a Triathlon / TT bike, if you've already purchased an aero-helmet, aero-bars and rim wheels, what are some other **relatively cheap** ways in which your bicycle performance can be purchased???

My thought is to purchase a Skin suit; Do these even work? Do typical "tri-suits" replicate the performance of a skin suit?

Other options might be;

-clip on bike shoes
- wheel-disc cover (similar to a disc wheel, but cheaper)
-Oval chain ring


I'm not asking anyone to research the validity of the above items, but if this list is incomplete what else could possibly help??
2013 GOALS:

- Compete in the "Early Bird Sprint Triathlon" in May
- Run a 5km pb during the "Bushtukah Canada Day Road Race"
- Complete an Olympic distance triathlon
- Cycle > 33 km / hr during the cycle portion of a Sprint Triathlon.
- Stay healthy and happy

Races

April 28th: Manotick 10km (40:16)
May 18th: Ottawa Early Bird Sprint Triathlon (DNF)
June 8th: Riverkeeper SuperSprint (2nd overall)
July 1st: Bushtukah Canada Day 5km (18:37)

User avatar
HCcD
Donovan Bailey
Posts: 60022
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:05 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby HCcD » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:44 pm

Proper bike fit ....

More structured and consistent training .... :shifty: :wink:

Practice, practice, practice, in particular to the 4th element ... Transitions .....

quick laces for running shoes ...
Race Results: http://itsmyrun.com/index.php?display=p ... unner=HCiD

User avatar
jamix
Bill Crothers
Posts: 1811
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:18 pm

Re: Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby jamix » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:46 pm

HCcD wrote:Proper bike fit ....

More structured and consistent training .... :shifty: :wink:


Well I might take you Euro-Sport dudes up on the "Proper Bike fit" option, but you can forget about the consistent bike training :P
2013 GOALS:

- Compete in the "Early Bird Sprint Triathlon" in May
- Run a 5km pb during the "Bushtukah Canada Day Road Race"
- Complete an Olympic distance triathlon
- Cycle > 33 km / hr during the cycle portion of a Sprint Triathlon.
- Stay healthy and happy

Races

April 28th: Manotick 10km (40:16)
May 18th: Ottawa Early Bird Sprint Triathlon (DNF)
June 8th: Riverkeeper SuperSprint (2nd overall)
July 1st: Bushtukah Canada Day 5km (18:37)

User avatar
turd ferguson
Ben Johnson
Posts: 28512
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:11 am
Location: It's a funny name
Contact:

Re: Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby turd ferguson » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:46 pm

lose weight

more extensive manscaping

fill your tires with helium instead of air
"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." - Douglas Adams

User avatar
Jwolf
Kevin Sullivan
Posts: 37476
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:02 pm
Location: Vancouver

Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby Jwolf » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:47 pm

How about train?

Frankly the whole idea of "buying speed" is a big turn-off for me in triathlon. If you're not gauging your performance and improvement based on your own internal factors, then what's the point?
Last edited by Jwolf on Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Support me in my fundraising for the Boston Marathon, Boston Public Library team:
https://www.crowdrise.com/o/en/campaign ... iferwolf11

Mark.AU
Bill Crothers
Posts: 2583
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:30 am

Re: Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby Mark.AU » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:50 pm

You can't buy training so ill ignore that...

Meh on the fit - it'll make a very small difference assuming you're already comfortable.
Bigger meh on the skin suit - practically no measurable difference at the level you're riding at.

In order;
Disk cover - $100 and worth every penny.
Clipless peddles - depending on what you buy, some $100s but again worth every penny for better power transfer
Fast tires properly fitted and appropriately inflated - $100
Well maintained bike to reduce power losses through drive train inefficiencies - free

That'll do for now.
"It's now very common to hear people say 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fcuking what."

Stephen Fry.

User avatar
bnn
Jerome Drayton
Posts: 5881
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:57 am

Re: Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby bnn » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:54 pm

Mark 2.1 wrote:You can't buy training so ill ignore that...

Meh on the fit - it'll make a very small difference assuming you're already comfortable.
Bigger meh on the skin suit - practically no measurable difference at the level you're riding at.

In order;
Disk cover - $100 and worth every penny.
Clipless peddles - depending on what you buy, some $100s but again worth every penny for better power transfer
Fast tires properly fitted and appropriately inflated - $100
Well maintained bike to reduce power losses through drive train inefficiencies - free

That'll do for now.


+1
Just call me the thread killa

Mark.AU
Bill Crothers
Posts: 2583
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:30 am

Re: Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby Mark.AU » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:56 pm

Jwolf wrote:Frankly the whole idea of "buying speed" is a big turn-off for me in triathlon. If you're not gauging your performance and improvement based on your own internal factors, then what's the point?

Don't look at it so much as buying speed, look at it more as minimizing power transfer losses. It ALWAYS comes down to the engine anyway.
"It's now very common to hear people say 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fcuking what."

Stephen Fry.

User avatar
jamix
Bill Crothers
Posts: 1811
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:18 pm

Re: Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby jamix » Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:05 pm

Mark 2.1 wrote:You can't buy training so ill ignore that...

Meh on the fit - it'll make a very small difference assuming you're already comfortable.
Bigger meh on the skin suit - practically no measurable difference at the level you're riding at.

In order;
Disk cover - $100 and worth every penny.
Clipless peddles - depending on what you buy, some $100s but again worth every penny for better power transfer
Fast tires properly fitted and appropriately inflated - $100
Well maintained bike to reduce power losses through drive train inefficiencies - free

That'll do for now.


Thanks for the input Mark

Given the popularity of "bike fitting" I'm surprised at your response. Would paying a specialist to provide me with fast and appropriately inflated tires be worth more bang / buck than a bike-fitting would??

When I get the time I guess I'll have to google the disk cover and clipless peddles option. Hopefully there is some research to support use of those items.
2013 GOALS:

- Compete in the "Early Bird Sprint Triathlon" in May
- Run a 5km pb during the "Bushtukah Canada Day Road Race"
- Complete an Olympic distance triathlon
- Cycle > 33 km / hr during the cycle portion of a Sprint Triathlon.
- Stay healthy and happy

Races

April 28th: Manotick 10km (40:16)
May 18th: Ottawa Early Bird Sprint Triathlon (DNF)
June 8th: Riverkeeper SuperSprint (2nd overall)
July 1st: Bushtukah Canada Day 5km (18:37)

User avatar
HCcD
Donovan Bailey
Posts: 60022
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:05 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby HCcD » Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:10 pm

jamix wrote:
HCcD wrote:Proper bike fit ....

More structured and consistent training .... :shifty: :wink:


Well I might take you Euro-Sport dudes up on the "Proper Bike fit" option, but you can forget about the consistent bike training :P


If you decide to accept the invitation to join the Team in 2013, once the invitations are sent out later this week, Jamie, you may be able to get a proper bike fit when you bring your bike in for a full tune-up, etc ...
Race Results: http://itsmyrun.com/index.php?display=p ... unner=HCiD

User avatar
turd ferguson
Ben Johnson
Posts: 28512
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:11 am
Location: It's a funny name
Contact:

Re: Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby turd ferguson » Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:10 pm

Jwolf wrote:Frankly the whole idea of "buying speed" is a big turn-off for me in triathlon. If you're not gauging your performance and improvement based on your own internal factors, then what's the point?


Welcome to cycling
"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." - Douglas Adams

User avatar
jamix
Bill Crothers
Posts: 1811
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:18 pm

Re: Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby jamix » Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:22 pm

HCcD wrote:
jamix wrote:
HCcD wrote:Proper bike fit ....

More structured and consistent training .... :shifty: :wink:


Well I might take you Euro-Sport dudes up on the "Proper Bike fit" option, but you can forget about the consistent bike training :P


If you decide to accept the invitation to join the Team in 2013, once the invitations are sent out later this week, Jamie, you may be able to get a proper bike fit when you bring your bike in for a full tune-up, etc ...


I'll definitely be doing the "tune-up" option as my race-bike hasn't had one in the entire 10+ years or so that I've had it :shock:

As for the "bike-fit", hmmmmmm, can anything be "fitted" other than just the "seat-height" :?
2013 GOALS:

- Compete in the "Early Bird Sprint Triathlon" in May
- Run a 5km pb during the "Bushtukah Canada Day Road Race"
- Complete an Olympic distance triathlon
- Cycle > 33 km / hr during the cycle portion of a Sprint Triathlon.
- Stay healthy and happy

Races

April 28th: Manotick 10km (40:16)
May 18th: Ottawa Early Bird Sprint Triathlon (DNF)
June 8th: Riverkeeper SuperSprint (2nd overall)
July 1st: Bushtukah Canada Day 5km (18:37)

User avatar
HCcD
Donovan Bailey
Posts: 60022
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:05 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby HCcD » Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:40 pm

jamix wrote:
HCcD wrote:
jamix wrote:
HCcD wrote:Proper bike fit ....

More structured and consistent training .... :shifty: :wink:


Well I might take you Euro-Sport dudes up on the "Proper Bike fit" option, but you can forget about the consistent bike training :P


If you decide to accept the invitation to join the Team in 2013, once the invitations are sent out later this week, Jamie, you may be able to get a proper bike fit when you bring your bike in for a full tune-up, etc ...


I'll definitely be doing the "tune-up" option as my race-bike hasn't had one in the entire 10+ years or so that I've had it :shock:

As for the "bike-fit", hmmmmmm, can anything be "fitted" other than just the "seat-height" :?


clip-less pedals, for sure ....

A full drive-train flush, as well as new chain, and new cabling etc., should allow you to feel a lot smoother, in itself ...

If I recall, you added aerobars to your road bike last summer ... :shifty: How comfortable were you while on the bars? besides seat height, there is also moving seat location (front/back) also adjustments to the stem, and your handlebars, etc ....
Race Results: http://itsmyrun.com/index.php?display=p ... unner=HCiD

CinC
Lynn Williams
Posts: 13476
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:19 pm

Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby CinC » Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:44 pm

To me it sounds ridiculous that you would have an aero helmet but not clipless pedals, but whatever
Race Hard. Race Happy.

User avatar
HCcD
Donovan Bailey
Posts: 60022
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:05 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby HCcD » Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:50 pm

CinC wrote:To me it sounds ridiculous that you would have an aero helmet but not clipless pedals, but whatever


He got a great price on the helmet, literally stole it, imo ... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Clipless pedals would also likely require proper bike shoes ... :shifty: :wink:
Race Results: http://itsmyrun.com/index.php?display=p ... unner=HCiD

User avatar
jamix
Bill Crothers
Posts: 1811
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:18 pm

Re: Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby jamix » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:14 pm

CinC wrote:To me it sounds ridiculous that you would have an aero helmet but not clipless pedals, but whatever


As Andy said, I got a deal I couldn't refuse. And I've been reading that clipless shoes won't make me faster, but are just more safe........

Anyway, here is what I've been reading recently

http://www.cyclingtips.com.au/2010/04/b ... equipment/

Interesting stuff! And it looks like Mark might be wrong about getting a skin suit :shifty:

Andy.......

Your aero-bars fit great :P . We'll see about the bike-fit. Right now all I'm thinking of doing is getting the tune-up from you guys and cutting out a circular piece of disposable cardboard, to use as a "disc cover" :shifty:
2013 GOALS:

- Compete in the "Early Bird Sprint Triathlon" in May
- Run a 5km pb during the "Bushtukah Canada Day Road Race"
- Complete an Olympic distance triathlon
- Cycle > 33 km / hr during the cycle portion of a Sprint Triathlon.
- Stay healthy and happy

Races

April 28th: Manotick 10km (40:16)
May 18th: Ottawa Early Bird Sprint Triathlon (DNF)
June 8th: Riverkeeper SuperSprint (2nd overall)
July 1st: Bushtukah Canada Day 5km (18:37)

User avatar
ROW
Bill Crothers
Posts: 2592
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:29 pm
Location: Aylmer/St. Catharines
Contact:

Re: Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby ROW » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:44 pm

To be brutally honest you are too slow to even worry about all of this right now. Work on your pedal stroke and train, train, train. Shorter intervals to build power, and some tempo to hold your power. Maybe once your are holding over 20 miles per hour in a triathlon I would worry about time savers..

Mark.AU
Bill Crothers
Posts: 2583
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:30 am

Re: Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby Mark.AU » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:23 pm

Nope, I'm not wrong on the skin suit; that site compares a skin suit to regular bike shirt and shorts; you asked about comparison to tri suit.

Nope, not wrong on bike fit; you have a road bike on which fit is far less critical than on a TT bike because of frame geometry (and a bunch of other stuff that I'm not going to go into).

Nope, not wrong on clip less peddles; peddling clip less allows for far more power transfer through the bottom of the stroke through the upstroke than is possible with clips.

The site you linked to is all about competitive TTing and TT bikes and is for riders who can TT 40k in 48 minutes; you're not in that world Jamie. The greater the velocity, the greater the benefit from all the aero gizmos and although ROW was a bit indelicate in how he put it, he's right inasmuch as you don't go fast enough to get much benefit from many of the tips listed on the site you linked to.

YMMV.
"It's now very common to hear people say 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fcuking what."

Stephen Fry.

User avatar
Ironboy
Abby Hoffman
Posts: 8201
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:57 pm
Location: Ottawa
Contact:

Re: Re: Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby Ironboy » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:36 pm

Jwolf wrote:How about train?

Frankly the whole idea of "buying speed" is a big turn-off for me in triathlon. If you're not gauging your performance and improvement based on your own internal factors, then what's the point?


Like Mark, I don't see it that way either. Consider your first race and the bike you used. You have to agree that on a better bike, even given your fitness and training, you would have likely had a better bike leg.
At some point there are diminishing returns, but you don't want the bike to be a factor, exactly like you state, you want the performance to reflect you ability and not be adversely affected by poor hardware.

User avatar
Jwolf
Kevin Sullivan
Posts: 37476
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:02 pm
Location: Vancouver

Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby Jwolf » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:03 pm

Ironboy wrote:
Jwolf wrote:How about train?

Frankly the whole idea of "buying speed" is a big turn-off for me in triathlon. If you're not gauging your performance and improvement based on your own internal factors, then what's the point?


Like Mark, I don't see it that way either. Consider your first race and the bike you used. You have to agree that on a better bike, even given your fitness and training, you would have likely had a better bike leg.
At some point there are diminishing returns, but you don't want the bike to be a factor, exactly like you state, you want the performance to reflect you ability and not be adversely affected by poor hardware.

Yes, that's a better way to look at it.
Support me in my fundraising for the Boston Marathon, Boston Public Library team:
https://www.crowdrise.com/o/en/campaign ... iferwolf11

User avatar
MINITEE
Lynn Williams
Posts: 19439
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:33 pm
Location: London, Ontario
Contact:

Re: Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby MINITEE » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:19 pm

CinC wrote:To me it sounds ridiculous that you would have an aero helmet but not clipless pedals, but whatever


Dang... ya beat me to it...

And... fwiw, there has been a fair bit of wind tunnel research that proves you get just as much gain from an aero helmet as you do from race wheels... for about 10% of the price...
KEEP GOING, NEVER GIVE UP: Spencer D

Hey, be careful around me, apparently I'm a chronically offended kind of person... ;)

trixiee
Lynn Williams
Posts: 17644
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby trixiee » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:40 pm

Train and tweek the engine riding the bike. This is where you will gain the most.
Single leg drills, sprints, hills, cornering skills, proper shifting skills - all of these take practise and consistency to get the bike to go faster.
That, and losing any excess weight. (says the kettle to the pot :wink: )
http://connect.garmin.com/profile/trixiee14

Why fit in when you were born to stand out?
~ Dr. Suess~
Life is short. Drink the good wine first!

Mark.AU
Bill Crothers
Posts: 2583
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:30 am

Re: Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby Mark.AU » Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:26 am

CinC wrote:To me it sounds ridiculous that you would have an aero helmet but not clipless pedals, but whatever

Rereading this morning; this comment stood out - and was referenced by a couple of others too - as I'm wondering why it's ridiculous? If Jamie is on a limited budget, even if he bought new, an aero helmet is much less cost than clip less peddles and bike shoes by about half and perhaps gains a greater power transfer/saving benefit (I don't have any data on that, it might be less but it's still significant). That's what I'd do too, actually.
Last edited by Mark.AU on Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
"It's now very common to hear people say 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fcuking what."

Stephen Fry.

User avatar
HCcD
Donovan Bailey
Posts: 60022
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:05 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby HCcD » Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:38 am

jamix wrote:
CinC wrote:To me it sounds ridiculous that you would have an aero helmet but not clipless pedals, but whatever


As Andy said, I got a deal I couldn't refuse. And I've been reading that clipless shoes won't make me faster, but are just more safe........

Anyway, here is what I've been reading recently

http://www.cyclingtips.com.au/2010/04/b ... equipment/

Interesting stuff! And it looks like Mark might be wrong about getting a skin suit :shifty:

Andy.......

Your aero-bars fit great :P . We'll see about the bike-fit. Right now all I'm thinking of doing is getting the tune-up from you guys and cutting out a circular piece of disposable cardboard, to use as a "disc cover" :shifty:


I thought that the key word here was "affordable" ways to help improve your bike performance ?? :roll: :roll: :roll:

Bunch of critics around here .. as part of the Euro-Sports.ca running team, Jamie, when you get your bike tune-up and ready to go, there should not be any additional costs to you, to ensure that your current set up is to your needs ...

Having said that, are you, or rather, were you, how long are you now able to sit in your aerobars, during those Olympic bike splits?

And, yes, from your purchases last season from Andy's Warehouse, I believe that Jamie received the best bang for his $$bucks$ to improve both his swimming and cycling times ... and, clipless pedals and shoes may be the next option to consider ...
Race Results: http://itsmyrun.com/index.php?display=p ... unner=HCiD

User avatar
jamix
Bill Crothers
Posts: 1811
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:18 pm

Re: Buying your performance on the bike!!

Postby jamix » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:04 am

HCcD wrote:
jamix wrote:
CinC wrote:To me it sounds ridiculous that you would have an aero helmet but not clipless pedals, but whatever


As Andy said, I got a deal I couldn't refuse. And I've been reading that clipless shoes won't make me faster, but are just more safe........

Anyway, here is what I've been reading recently

http://www.cyclingtips.com.au/2010/04/b ... equipment/

Interesting stuff! And it looks like Mark might be wrong about getting a skin suit :shifty:

Andy.......

Your aero-bars fit great :P . We'll see about the bike-fit. Right now all I'm thinking of doing is getting the tune-up from you guys and cutting out a circular piece of disposable cardboard, to use as a "disc cover" :shifty:


I thought that the key word here was "affordable" ways to help improve your bike performance ?? :roll: :roll: :roll:

Bunch of critics around here .. as part of the Euro-Sports.ca running team, Jamie, when you get your bike tune-up and ready to go, there should not be any additional costs to you, to ensure that your current set up is to your needs ...

Having said that, are you, or rather, were you, how long are you now able to sit in your aerobars, during those Olympic bike splits?

And, yes, from your purchases last season from Andy's Warehouse, I believe that Jamie received the best bang for his $$bucks$ to improve both his swimming and cycling times ... and, clipless pedals and shoes may be the next option to consider ...


Yes lots of critics, but that's okay because I asked everyone for their opinion :P

Really no additional cost for the "fit"! I'll definitely do it when I come in for the tune-up then :)

After a couple months of practise, I can stay in the aero position for 20km no problem. With that said, in the past two years at Early Bird (which takes place in May and has a 24km bike course), I could stay "aero" for about 17-19 km, before having to periodically sit-up to relieve sore back muscles. I'm not sure how I'd do in a 40km ride, as I have never even attempted to ride "aero" for that distance.
2013 GOALS:

- Compete in the "Early Bird Sprint Triathlon" in May
- Run a 5km pb during the "Bushtukah Canada Day Road Race"
- Complete an Olympic distance triathlon
- Cycle > 33 km / hr during the cycle portion of a Sprint Triathlon.
- Stay healthy and happy

Races

April 28th: Manotick 10km (40:16)
May 18th: Ottawa Early Bird Sprint Triathlon (DNF)
June 8th: Riverkeeper SuperSprint (2nd overall)
July 1st: Bushtukah Canada Day 5km (18:37)


Return to “The Dark Side”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests