Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

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Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

Postby Jwolf » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:39 am

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/sto ... f26bbfdd48

A competitor in "The Canadian" (Somersault triathlon/duathlon event in Ottawa this past weekend) had his $10,000 Cervelo stolen out of transition and is understandably peeved. Race organizers deny responsibility:

“We’ve never had something like this happen at one of our events before,” said Christine McKinty, a Somersault race official.

She said the responsibility of keeping a bike safe ultimately rests with the competitors themselves.

“First and foremost it’s the athletes’ responsibility for their equipment and their gear. We advertise that so when they sign up for the event they are aware of it,” she said. “We do have transition zone volunteers as well as our own staff, but they are not watching an athlete take their bike from transition while the event is going on.

“We are not responsible for monitoring their equipment.”


Huh? How is the athlete responsible if someone takes their bike out of the secured transition area? In triathlons I've been at I've needed to show my number which is matched to the number on my bike as I leave.
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Re: Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

Postby scrumhalfgirl » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:42 am

Jwolf wrote: In triathlons I've been at I've needed to show my number which is matched to the number on my bike as I leave.


I don't understand why Somersault doesn't have this policy. It takes an extra 1-2 volunteers at the exit of the Tzone and some stickers.
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Re: Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

Postby Jo-Jo » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 am

scrumhalfgirl wrote:
Jwolf wrote: In triathlons I've been at I've needed to show my number which is matched to the number on my bike as I leave.


I don't understand why Somersault doesn't have this policy. It takes an extra 1-2 volunteers at the exit of the Tzone and some stickers.



K-Town Triathlon in Kingston that was100% volunteer run for 30 years had this policy.

I don't know why Somersault doesn't have this policy either.
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Re: Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

Postby La » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:52 am

Neither the Trisport/Subaru series nor the Multisport/Milk series has this procedure as far as I know, though I haven't done either of their races for a while (so maybe they do now?).
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Re: Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

Postby HCcD » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:54 am

scrumhalfgirl wrote:
Jwolf wrote: In triathlons I've been at I've needed to show my number which is matched to the number on my bike as I leave.


I don't understand why Somersault doesn't have this policy. It takes an extra 1-2 volunteers at the exit of the Tzone and some stickers.


As far as I am aware of, the only stickers provided are by Zoomphoto, for the helmet (and bike ??) for the photograph identification purposes, but can easily be removed, intentionally and/or unintentionally ...

Having said that, there is no way in stopping, as the articile suggested, for someone to register for a $$$$ with a fake information, to gain access to the T-Zone with their bib number and stick their sticker on the bike and remove it, as they choose .. :what: :help:

I think the logistical issues at the Canadian is, with around a 1,000 participants, in the various events, IronDistance, 1/2 IronDistance, Sprints, Relays, etc. there are a lot of people coming in and out of the T-Zones throughout the morning/day ... from 6:30am to 10:30pm or so, at the cut-off point of the IronDistance event .....

All that to say .... the T-Zone is not very secured, let alone maintained by qualified volunteer(s) at any given time ....
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Re: Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

Postby Jwolf » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:01 pm

Jo-Jo wrote:
scrumhalfgirl wrote:
Jwolf wrote: In triathlons I've been at I've needed to show my number which is matched to the number on my bike as I leave.


I don't understand why Somersault doesn't have this policy. It takes an extra 1-2 volunteers at the exit of the Tzone and some stickers.



K-Town Triathlon in Kingston that was100% volunteer run for 30 years had this policy.

I don't know why Somersault doesn't have this policy either.


There still is always the possibility of sneaking a bike out. Still, there would be limited exits and some control.

I guess what the race director meant was that ultimately it's the participant's legal responsibility, that is, the race organizers are not legally (or financially) responsible if a bike goes missing.
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Re: Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

Postby jonovision_man » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:35 pm

Jwolf wrote:http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/story.html?id=8860346&fb_comment_id=fbc_632912670072367_100964583_633218426708458#f26bbfdd48

A competitor in "The Canadian" (Somersault triathlon/duathlon event in Ottawa this past weekend) had his $10,000 Cervelo stolen out of transition and is understandably peeved. Race organizers deny responsibility:

“We’ve never had something like this happen at one of our events before,” said Christine McKinty, a Somersault race official.

She said the responsibility of keeping a bike safe ultimately rests with the competitors themselves.

“First and foremost it’s the athletes’ responsibility for their equipment and their gear. We advertise that so when they sign up for the event they are aware of it,” she said. “We do have transition zone volunteers as well as our own staff, but they are not watching an athlete take their bike from transition while the event is going on.

“We are not responsible for monitoring their equipment.”


Huh? How is the athlete responsible if someone takes their bike out of the secured transition area? In triathlons I've been at I've needed to show my number which is matched to the number on my bike as I leave.


I agree, how can you possibly be responsible for taking care of your bike when you're busy racing! :? It's a ridiculous statement.

I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often, so many thousands of dollars of carbon sitting there for the taking, minimal security. I'm sure anyone in lycra could walk off with whatever they want without anyone taking a second look at them.

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Re: Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

Postby La » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:40 pm

I see a new business opportunity... race-day bike locks! ;)
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Re: Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

Postby eme » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:44 pm

IM 70.3 Calgary this year had around 1000 participants and you were not leaving transition without your bracelet and bike stickers (there were two) matching.

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Re: Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

Postby turd ferguson » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:50 pm

eme wrote:IM 70.3 Calgary this year had around 1000 participants and you were not leaving transition without your bracelet and bike stickers (there were two) matching.


Banff and Wasa were the same. You also weren't getting into transition without your bracelet (which cut down on the congestion a LOT). My gut feel is that they take security more seriously when bike check in is mandatory the day before.

It seems like a pretty good idea, as long as its well run. I know that races sometimes have a hard time scratching together volunteers and if its one guy at the exit trying to check out six hundred people at the same time, people are going to have a different complaint.
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Re: Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

Postby jonovision_man » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:58 pm

turd ferguson wrote:
eme wrote:IM 70.3 Calgary this year had around 1000 participants and you were not leaving transition without your bracelet and bike stickers (there were two) matching.


Banff and Wasa were the same. You also weren't getting into transition without your bracelet (which cut down on the congestion a LOT). My gut feel is that they take security more seriously when bike check in is mandatory the day before.

It seems like a pretty good idea, as long as its well run. I know that races sometimes have a hard time scratching together volunteers and if its one guy at the exit trying to check out six hundred people at the same time, people are going to have a different complaint.


True, but with the sheer value of bike hardware at any of these races, seems pretty crazy to just let anyone in or out with whatever they grab! You wouldn't leave your $10,000 car unlocked with the keys in the ignition.

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Re: Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

Postby Jwolf » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:58 pm

HCcD wrote:I think the logistical issues at the Canadian is, with around a 1,000 participants, in the various events, IronDistance, 1/2 IronDistance, Sprints, Relays, etc. there are a lot of people coming in and out of the T-Zones throughout the morning/day ... from 6:30am to 10:30pm or so, at the cut-off point of the IronDistance event .....


That's pretty similar to the UBC triathlon I did in March, well maybe a bit closer to 800 participants spread throughout the day (but not as long because nothing longer than Olympic). There was lots of coming and going throughout the day, people checking bikes in and out while the race was going, yet still good security for taking the bike out.

Someone could always come out to the mount area on a stolen bike with a race bib pretending to be a participant. That would be harder to catch.
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Re: Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

Postby turd ferguson » Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:01 pm

jonovision_man wrote:
turd ferguson wrote:
eme wrote:IM 70.3 Calgary this year had around 1000 participants and you were not leaving transition without your bracelet and bike stickers (there were two) matching.


Banff and Wasa were the same. You also weren't getting into transition without your bracelet (which cut down on the congestion a LOT). My gut feel is that they take security more seriously when bike check in is mandatory the day before.

It seems like a pretty good idea, as long as its well run. I know that races sometimes have a hard time scratching together volunteers and if its one guy at the exit trying to check out six hundred people at the same time, people are going to have a different complaint.


True, but with the sheer value of bike hardware at any of these races, seems pretty crazy to just let anyone in or out with whatever they grab! You wouldn't leave your $10,000 car unlocked with the keys in the ignition.

jono


I agree. I'm just saying that if you're going to put security on you can't half-ass it and leave participants even more frustrated as they face a 45 minute wait to get their bikes to go home. The cure can't be worse than the disease.
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Re: Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

Postby Annelizabeth » Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:12 pm

An adventure race I did this year required photo ID for gear reterval. Mind you, I was watching my kids and my husband just took my drivers license, but they are very serious about being mindful of your gear. Even last year, when the race was cancelled MID RACE due to weather. They just said no excesses, we are protecting your future in racing. Top Notch.
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Re: Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

Postby jonovision_man » Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:15 pm

turd ferguson wrote:I agree. I'm just saying that if you're going to put security on you can't half-ass it and leave participants even more frustrated as they face a 45 minute wait to get their bikes to go home. The cure can't be worse than the disease.


Ah ok, I agree.

1000 participants - add $1 to the race fees, raise $1000 and hire a couple of security guys to guard the $300,000-500,000 worth of bikes. If you explain to people why, they likely won't complain (and frankly triathletes aren't the most price sensitive bunch to start with).

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Re: Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

Postby Jwolf » Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:16 pm

turd ferguson wrote:
jonovision_man wrote:
turd ferguson wrote:
eme wrote:IM 70.3 Calgary this year had around 1000 participants and you were not leaving transition without your bracelet and bike stickers (there were two) matching.


Banff and Wasa were the same. You also weren't getting into transition without your bracelet (which cut down on the congestion a LOT). My gut feel is that they take security more seriously when bike check in is mandatory the day before.

It seems like a pretty good idea, as long as its well run. I know that races sometimes have a hard time scratching together volunteers and if its one guy at the exit trying to check out six hundred people at the same time, people are going to have a different complaint.


True, but with the sheer value of bike hardware at any of these races, seems pretty crazy to just let anyone in or out with whatever they grab! You wouldn't leave your $10,000 car unlocked with the keys in the ignition.

jono


I agree. I'm just saying that if you're going to put security on you can't half-ass it and leave participants even more frustrated as they face a 45 minute wait to get their bikes to go home. The cure can't be worse than the disease.


This isn't usually an issue. Even with events having around 1000 people, you normally don't have tons trying to exit transition at the same time.

This is a pretty standard procedure that's done at many other races, so we're not talking something new here. Just something that some races choose not to do.
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Re: Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

Postby HCcD » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:33 am

From the victim's blog .....

http://targettrainers.blogspot.ca/2013/09/ive-been-violated-need-your-help.html


As well, read the comments, following ....
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Re: Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

Postby jonovision_man » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:54 am

I'm still not clear on the race director's position on this... "while you are out running, you are responsible for watching your bike"? Unless the run course is just loops of transition they have some serious liability here IMO. I'd sue.

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Re: Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

Postby Jwolf » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:01 am

jonovision_man wrote:I'm still not clear on the race director's position on this... "while you are out running, you are responsible for watching your bike"? Unless the run course is just loops of transition they have some serious liability here IMO. I'd sue.

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By "ultimately it's the athlete's responsibility" I think she means legally.
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Re: Bike stolen at the

Postby La » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:05 am

Jwolf wrote:
jonovision_man wrote:I'm still not clear on the race director's position on this... "while you are out running, you are responsible for watching your bike"? Unless the run course is just loops of transition they have some serious liability here IMO. I'd sue.

jono
By "ultimately it's the athlete's responsibility" I think she means legally.

It's not unlike any other public space where you leave your things (even work). The place you leave them always denies responsibility for any safekeeping. Even coat checks where you PAY won't even assume liability to keep your things safe.

Actually, I think the coat check analogy is pretty close to the situation with race gear (baggage check, transition zones, etc.).
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Re: Bike stolen at the

Postby jonovision_man » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:09 am

Jwolf wrote:
jonovision_man wrote:I'm still not clear on the race director's position on this... "while you are out running, you are responsible for watching your bike"? Unless the run course is just loops of transition they have some serious liability here IMO. I'd sue.

jono
By "ultimately it's the athlete's responsibility" I think she means legally.


She may believe so, but in many cases where they put in fine print saying they aren't responsible a judge will still award you if there was negligence.

Edit: google "exculpatory clauses". :) I'm not a lawyer, but apparently judges rarely hold up these cases where a contract waives one party of all responsibility. I'd imagine that is especially true when it is unreasonable, ie. when the rules of their event tell you to go run out on a run course but you're also somehow supposed to watch your bike! :?

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Re: Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

Postby carm » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:11 am

As someone mentioned in another non-RM venue, the Somersault races are not sanctioned and thus they can make their own rules regarding security policies etc. The other tris that I've done (Subaru series, Mdot) have been sanctioned by Triathlon Canada or USAT so you pay the extra day fee for well-established rules and policies. I much prefer this! At most tris, you have to show your bracelet or bib and the security person (often a volunteer) matches it to your bike upon entry and exit from the TZ, but not here in Ottawa. Our local races have really 'laxed security and are often under-staffed in the volunteer department. I often bike to the events to spectate or at least wear comfy tech clothing. On occasion, I've had to use the portopotties within the athlete area because there weren't any bathroom facilities and have gone right in and out of the TZ without anyone questioning my presence there. It would be *really* easy to grab a bike, Garmin, wetsuit etc, fit right in and take it out of the TZ.

I feel really bad for this guy though.
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Re: Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

Postby Jwolf » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:40 am

carm wrote:As someone mentioned in another non-RM venue, the Somersault races are not sanctioned and thus they can make their own rules regarding security policies etc. The other tris that I've done (Subaru series, Mdot) have been sanctioned by Triathlon Canada or USAT so you pay the extra day fee for well-established rules and policies. I much prefer this! At most tris, you have to show your bracelet or bib and the security person (often a volunteer) matches it to your bike upon entry and exit from the TZ, but not here in Ottawa. Our local races have really 'laxed security and are often under-staffed in the volunteer department. I often bike to the events to spectate or at least wear comfy tech clothing. On occasion, I've had to use the portopotties within the athlete area because there weren't any bathroom facilities and have gone right in and out of the TZ without anyone questioning my presence there. It would be *really* easy to grab a bike, Garmin, wetsuit etc, fit right in and take it out of the TZ.

I feel really bad for this guy though.


I've read some reports on other forums of people who have done this race and they all say the same thing. That is so surprising! I just take it as a given that the transition area is secured.

Yes, it's still possible for an enterprising thief to steal a bike if security is in place. But at least it makes it much more difficult. Especially if its KNOWN that there is little security at Somersault events- that's just inviting the bad guys. Many people in Adam's blog commented that anyone who is registered would be a suspect, but it seems just as likely (or even more likely) to be a random person who knew it was easy to wander in.

Of course, eventually this is going to happen at an event which had security and is sanctioned by the provincial body. We'd be having a different discussion then- but at least the owner would feel like there were reasonable means in place to prevent theft.
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Re: Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

Postby HCcD » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:01 am

One of the irony, is that of all the Somersault Events, imo, The Canadian would have been one of the most secured, as it is located in the center of the Terry Fox Track / Infield, surrounded by mesh fences, while the other events had many access points opportunities ... In the past, they sorta-kinda separated the 1/2 and Full IronPeeps from the shorter distances, as, the logic would suggest that the participants would be out there a lot longer and not as many people would be able to access that area, without displaying a proper bib, etc ...

Having said that, as mentioned above, no difference than leaving your bikes locked or unlocked on bike racks and/or parking your car in a parking lot, etc .. where management would post signs similar to "Not responsible for lost, damaged, stolen, etc ...." :?

In the end result, hopefully the Race Director, and others, will take precautions in the future to reduce the risk of a similar incident from occuring .... but, as others have said in the past, "Where there is a will, there is a way ... " ... if a thief really wants something .....
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Re: Bike stolen at the "The Canadian" in Ottawa

Postby La » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:05 am

Right, so if there is a will and a way to steal bikes at races, what can you and I do to protect ourselves given that it's ultimately our own responsibility to keep our gear safe, even when we're out on the course? There isn't any, that I can think of (short of taking the time to lock/unlock your bike to the rack in transition). For that reason, we have to trust that the race director will take measures to do this for us.
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