Running Mania

In her watch thread, La wrote:

We should have a separate thread to debate whether using a watch (as opposed to the pool clock) is beneficial in swimming. Hard core swim coaches will be adamantly against using a watch. Tri-geeks who do most of their training on their own (as opposed to with a swim club) will usually be pro-watch (unless they come from a swim background).

I have a Garmin 910xt which I use for most of my solo swims (unless I forget it ), but I wouldn't necessarily use it in a group. I love that it counts my laps for me to track distance (it can sense when you turn around at the wall), and it even keeps track of which stroke I do. The 910xt doesn't have a "drill mode" so it doesn't count properly if I do drills-- the newer Garmin watches have a drill mode. I have used the pace clock when I forget my watch, and that's fine but it's harder to keep track of my progress. Also, since I am a pretty slow swimmer, if I lose track of how many laps I have done in a set it can get confusing (it takes me over a minute to do 50m, so if I do 150 instead of 100 I can be confused if the clock says :15-- was I really that fast? or did I do an extra lap and was I just slow...or did I go on the yellow and not the red? or did I go on the :30-- now I can't remember... hmmmm...)

I can see how it would be annoying for people to use their own watches when swimming in a coached swim with a group. But for myself I don't think I need to be a purist and insist on using the pace clock.

I can't see why one or the other can be seen as better or worse for training-- either one is a tool that helps you progress if you use it properly. I am finding having the Garmin makes my workouts more enjoyable and I'm more likely to want to do them.

pace clock when swimming with in a coached swim group

pace clock when doing 100's or 50's

timex for long sets - 500's or 1000's or a straight 2000.

i have a garmin 910xt but rarely wear it swimming - even iffy wearing it in OW as I've seen/heard of too many of them falling to the bottom of a lake due to the quick release (if you have it).

CinC wrote:i have a garmin 910xt but rarely wear it swimming - even iffy wearing it in OW as I've seen/heard of too many of them falling to the bottom of a lake due to the quick release (if you have it).

I won't put on a quick release for that reason.

I know bike purists will say I should have a dedicated bike computer and not be looking at my wrist while cycling... but that's for another debate.

Jwolf wrote:

CinC wrote:i have a garmin 910xt but rarely wear it swimming - even iffy wearing it in OW as I've seen/heard of too many of them falling to the bottom of a lake due to the quick release (if you have it).

I won't put on a quick release for that reason.

I know bike purists will say I should have a dedicated bike computer and not be looking at my wrist while cycling... but that's for another debate.

I love my garmin on my bike - love love love the quick release. Mind you, I don't wear it to race with - the garmin stays on the bike. The timex goes with me the whole race.

(and yes, I won't debate you looking at your wrist while cycling....but I will agree with the purists out there! LOL!)

Thou shalt not wear a watch while swim training.

Wu wei wrote:Thou shalt not wear a watch while swim training.

How did I know you'd say that.....

Pace clock since I hate swimming with a watch, but I have the big 310xt. If I had a Timex I'd probably use it for longer sets.

Since I can't see well enough to see the pace clock I need to wear some kind of watch/timer. If I'm swimming on my own I will definitely wear my 910. I don't do drills unless I'm doing a coached swim so I like to have stats when I'm done.

I use my Timex for swimming. I tend to day dream on longer sets, so I use it to keep track of where I am/how many laps I've done.


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I HATE when people use their watch in group swim! It also means you're likely adding in a couple of extra seconds between repeats with the start/stop/reset.

You shouldn't have to take any more time- with my 910 I just hit the lap button when I touch the wall and then again when I'm starting up. Takes me about the same time as stopping and looking up at the clock.

Anyway- besides personal preferences can anyone explain to me why there is some better training benefit from using the pace clock?

If your pace clocks are in sync between both ends of the pool (the pool I swim at can be off) you can gauge your effort more as you will see the clock when you are taking a breath. Or give you that extra push. Pausing to read your watch will take too long.

Jwolf wrote:Anyway- besides personal preferences can anyone explain to me why there is some better training benefit from using the pace clock?

There is no training benefit whatsoever in using a pace clock over a watch - it's just pool snobbery.

Getting wacked by a wrist hurts much less than by a wrist with a watch on it. No watches during group training.

Irongirl wrote:Getting wacked by a wrist hurts much less than by a wrist with a watch on it. No watches during group training.

That would mean no paddles either, which I use almost every workout.

I always thought the no watch rule was because it changes the technique slightly on the one arm... and you'll never see a watch worn at a swim meet!

I don't wear a watch, and I don't even look at the wall clock much any more. I estimate my rest intervals and use perceived exertion... medium, moderate, mad.

Mark.AU wrote:

Jwolf wrote:Anyway- besides personal preferences can anyone explain to me why there is some better training benefit from using the pace clock?

There is no training benefit whatsoever in using a pace clock over a watch - it's just pool snobbery.

Interesting point. 15 replies and some strong opinions but nobody has yet said why a watch is wrong (other than getting whacked with one).

CinC wrote:I love my garmin on my bike - love love love the quick release. Mind you, I don't wear it to race with - the garmin stays on the bike. The timex goes with me the whole race.

I agree with you completely, but can't help recall that you scorched me for expressing the same love for my Garmin on my bike.

turd ferguson wrote:

CinC wrote:I love my garmin on my bike - love love love the quick release. Mind you, I don't wear it to race with - the garmin stays on the bike. The timex goes with me the whole race.

I agree with you completely, but can't help recall that you scorched me for expressing the same love for my Garmin on my bike.

you need to remind me of this....

turd ferguson wrote:

Mark.AU wrote:

Jwolf wrote:Anyway- besides personal preferences can anyone explain to me why there is some better training benefit from using the pace clock?

There is no training benefit whatsoever in using a pace clock over a watch - it's just pool snobbery.

Interesting point. 15 replies and some strong opinions but nobody has yet said why a watch is wrong (other than getting whacked with one).

my strong opinion isn't based on a training benefit, but rather that if you're training with a group, all doing the same workout, it's important that everyone is working from the same time. if people are using their own watches, they throw off the timing for the rest of the group and it disrupts the workout. if you want to use your watch when swimming on your own, that's fine with me.

CinC wrote:

turd ferguson wrote:

CinC wrote:I love my garmin on my bike - love love love the quick release. Mind you, I don't wear it to race with - the garmin stays on the bike. The timex goes with me the whole race.

I agree with you completely, but can't help recall that you scorched me for expressing the same love for my Garmin on my bike.

you need to remind me of this....

In Magrath, I was talking about having to reattach my Garmin mount to my bike, and you told me about turning the Garmin off on a ride up Highwood and riding by exertion rather than being a slave to Garmin pace.

(I ignored your advice, reattached the garmin mount then discovered my battery was dead anyway)

turd ferguson wrote:

Mark.AU wrote:

Jwolf wrote:Anyway- besides personal preferences can anyone explain to me why there is some better training benefit from using the pace clock?

There is no training benefit whatsoever in using a pace clock over a watch - it's just pool snobbery.

Interesting point. 15 replies and some strong opinions but nobody has yet said why a watch is wrong (other than getting whacked with one).

I asked my swim guru buddy.

He says a watch is just not accurate enough.
You are always reaching to hit the lap/stop.
Should be setting up your push off too, not hitting a button.
Says a tempo trainer is the tool you want instead of a watch. Fits under swim cap and beeps at set interval. Go on the beep!

I kinda want a tempo trainer my 100 sets now... forcing pace without looking at the clock. Nice...

Not wrong to wear a watch, just better to learn without I suppose...

turd ferguson wrote:

CinC wrote:

turd ferguson wrote:

CinC wrote:I love my garmin on my bike - love love love the quick release. Mind you, I don't wear it to race with - the garmin stays on the bike. The timex goes with me the whole race.

I agree with you completely, but can't help recall that you scorched me for expressing the same love for my Garmin on my bike.

you need to remind me of this....

In Magrath, I was talking about having to reattach my Garmin mount to my bike, and you told me about turning the Garmin off on a ride up Highwood and riding by exertion rather than being a slave to Garmin pace.

(I ignored your advice, reattached the garmin mount then discovered my battery was dead anyway)

ahh. that's right. but that's where we differ - you use the garmin to see pace/speed on the bike. I don't like to have speed on my main display (time, heart rate, cadence - when I have my cadence sensor working), as yes, I'd rather pace off exertion/heart rate.

back to the watch/pace clock in the pool - there's no right answer IMO - use whatever you like.

let's put it this way and these are the rules I follow: respect those around you with whom you are sharing a lane with - If you're solo in a lane, then wear a garmin, wear your ipod, use the pace clock, doggy paddle, do fly, swim in the middle of lane, yell 'I rock' at the end of each length, be as annoying as you would like to make you enjoy the time you are staring down at the black line.

When you're sharing a lane though, then pay attention to who you're sharing the lane with. Mutual respect to their speed and pace. I've been frustrated more times than I can remember due to people not paying attention to lane etiquette. It's not rocket science - just don't be dumb. or be a dumbass.

CinC wrote:let's put it this way and these are the rules I follow: respect those around you with whom you are sharing a lane with - If you're solo in a lane, then wear a garmin, wear your ipod, use the pace clock, doggy paddle, do fly, swim in the middle of lane, yell 'I rock' at the end of each length, be as annoying as you would like to make you enjoy the time you are staring down at the black line.

When you're sharing a lane though, then pay attention to who you're sharing the lane with. Mutual respect to their speed and pace. I've been frustrated more times than I can remember due to people not paying attention to lane etiquette. It's not rocket science - just don't be dumb. or be a dumbass.

This is pretty much what I do. When I swim on my own, I use the watch to keep track of my laps (seriously, I have almost hit the wall with my head daydreaming) but when swimming a group workout I don't need to, since everyone is doing the same workout (keeps me on track) and the pool clock works for timing breaks.

ETA - I am spoiled, during the week I rarely have to share a lane at the Base pool.

CinC wrote:back to the watch/pace clock in the pool - there's no right answer IMO - use whatever you like.

let's put it this way and these are the rules I follow: respect those around you with whom you are sharing a lane with - If you're solo in a lane, then wear a garmin, wear your ipod, use the pace clock, doggy paddle, do fly, swim in the middle of lane, yell 'I rock' at the end of each length, be as annoying as you would like to make you enjoy the time you are staring down at the black line.

When you're sharing a lane though, then pay attention to who you're sharing the lane with. Mutual respect to their speed and pace. I've been frustrated more times than I can remember due to people not paying attention to lane etiquette. It's not rocket science - just don't be dumb. or be a dumbass.

yes, this.

In the pool where I usually swim, lane behaviour is ... interesting. Often i end up sharing the "fast" lane with someone doing the elementary backstroke, or some combination of dog paddle/breaststroke with head above water (lots of seniors at my pool). Thankfully I normally don't have to share with more than one person, so we take sides of the lane. Occasionally I will end up circuit swimming with one or two other people who are close to my speed. The watch is a relative non-issue to all the other logistics going on. (And my pool - a 25m pool - has a pace clock on only one end.)

If I start doing coached swims, I will certainly follow whatever the norm is with that group. I don't plan on entering any swim meets any time soon, so that's not really relevant. And the watch is light enough that it's not significantly changing my stroke.

scrumhalfgirl wrote:

turd ferguson wrote:

Mark.AU wrote:

Jwolf wrote:Anyway- besides personal preferences can anyone explain to me why there is some better training benefit from using the pace clock?

There is no training benefit whatsoever in using a pace clock over a watch - it's just pool snobbery.

Interesting point. 15 replies and some strong opinions but nobody has yet said why a watch is wrong (other than getting whacked with one).

my strong opinion isn't based on a training benefit, but rather that if you're training with a group, all doing the same workout, it's important that everyone is working from the same time. if people are using their own watches, they throw off the timing for the rest of the group and it disrupts the workout. if you want to use your watch when swimming on your own, that's fine with me.

I agree with scrummy.

I also agree with Mark (to some degree). Every sport has its snobbery, and usually triathletes bear the brunt of all that snobbery:
- "real" cyclists hate us and our aerobars, aero helmets, and for never wanting to draft on a group ride;
- "real" swimmers hate us because all we want to do is 800m+ sets and wear watches in the pool;
- "real" runners hate us and consistently want to remind us of the good old days when they trained in miles, when everyone who ran qualified for Boston, and the only gear required was a singlet and a pair of flappy shorts.