Thursday Speed

[QuickChick]

Today I did a speed workout at the track. After a 4K warmup, my plan was to do 1K, 1 mile, 1 mile, 1K with 4 strides before and after.
WELL... I was ready to DIE after the mile, and ended up doing 2 800's afterwards instead.
Lessons learned...
-I need to do more mile repeats
-I should do them at the end!

Next time I try long repeats I'm going to try 1K, 1K, 1 mile 1 mile, I think. From what I've heard to improve on the marathon specifically, long repeats seem to be key. I've been working up to it by doing ladders (200, 400, 600, 800, 1K, 800, 600, 400, 200) and the ladders were starting to feel downright OK, so I wanted to push myself a bit.

Any other ideas?! I really need to improve my anaerobic strength. That's definitely my weak point. I can go forever at 5:20 kilometres (well, a half marathon anyway) and barely be breathing hard, but ask me to go out at 4:50 or 5 minute K's for not even half that, and I'm dying.

[jacob42.2]

You have a pretty good idea with the 1k,1k,1mile,1mile. I'd just do 4x1mile, but whatever helps get through the long stuff.

The easiest way to build up comfortable speed for those miles would be run them as say tempo or a cruise pace, rather than a speed pace. I leave the speed stuff for the 1200's and down. So a 5:20 pace is easy for you. A good cruising pace would be 5:10. And a Tempo pace 5:05ish. Try doing that. For the long stuff, you don't need to go out and blast through a 4:30-5:30 mile. That's tough. Stick with it, but slow it down.

Here is one that works really well for me...(Just insert your own pace..)

2k Warmup
4x100m Strides (get the HR up, just like racing...)
4x1mile at Cruising Pace.
2x800m Speed Interval (By the time you get here, you'll be tired, and really pushing, this is where you're going to get your speed)
4x100m Strides
2k Cooldown
--------------------------------------------
For something a little different that involves a lot of speed try this one:
2k warmup
4x100m Strides
8x800m Cruise
4x400 Speed Interval
2k cooldown
--------------------------------------------------------------------
And my all time favourite for just mass speed:
2k warmup
4x100m Strides
2x1200m SI
4x800m SI
6x400m SI
6x300m SI
6x200m SI
2x1200m SI
2k cooldown and vomit rest.
Rest between each set is short about 1-2 minutes for the long stuff, 20-45 for the short stuff.
-----------------------------------------------------

[QuickChick]

Those are great! Xcept maybe the last one... I think I would die!
Yeah, I want to work up to doing 4 x 1 mile. I think when I can do that, I will be better at racing the 5k and 10k distances.
Thanks Jacob!
L

Once my speed clinic starts I'll post my workouts on here and hey- maybe you can get some new ones too. The coach is super intense!

[jacob42.2]

I like intense!

[jacob42.2]

Haha..

What you need to remember is that speed training, doesn't mean kill yourself every interval, and that seems to be the impression I'm getting here. Choosing to do cruise and tempo, followed by faster running is all speed training. When you add tempo to faster running you have Speed Training. You understand?

So doing your repeats of one mile, till you puke, is no good if you're supposed to do 4 of them. You want to still pace yourself, and run them all pretty much the same, only faster than you would in a race, but not by much.

I'll give you an example of my last mile repeat session

mile1- 5:20
mile2- 5:21
mile3- 5:30 (oops!)
mile4- 4:58

800m- 2:30
800m- 2:39

The point is that those last 800m repeats were hell. They hurt, I was pushing I felt sick. The mile repeats were faster than normal for me, but they were doable. They were more or less tempo miles.

So remember the next time you're out, doing long repeats and short intervals...the long are controlled, the short are as fast.

This is my take on speed work. My rest also varies but I WALK during all rest periods.

[Stephan]

Hey Jacob, do you do those repeats at the track, road or treadmill? How would you measure out the exact distance on the road being hills and what not? I have been doing intervals on the dreadmill simply cause it's easy to keep a steady pace and distance, but I can now see it's limitations. There is a track not too far from here so I could use it for speedwork. Also, do you do any fartleking? I have added a 10K race in 3 weeks so I need to get my speed up. I have 3 weeks to bring my 10K down from 50-52 minutes to sub 45. Any insight?

Stephan

[jacob42.2]

I do all my speed work on a track, and fartlek, whenever I'm playing soccer. Mostly by myself...

As for wanting to bring your times down, I don't know if what you need to do, to achieve it is such a great idea, with your marathon training. It requires a lot of pace intervals and speed intervals. What I can suggest for now is if you want that time down, you have to train at that pace for a little bit..say by doing 2-3x3k Intervals at that pace, or slightly faster..

[Jwolf]

I have 3 weeks to bring my 10K down from 50-52 minutes to sub 45. Any insight?

Stephan-
I'm not Jacob, so sorry for butting in, but...
When did you do 50-52 min? In a training run, right? If it wasn't an all-out race, then maybe you can do 45-min. If it was your fastest pace, then improving to 45 minutes in three weeks is unreasonable. That's just too much of an improvement in VO2max.
I did a 52-minute 10K in April (in a race), and I know it's going to take me a LONG time before I can do a 45-minute.

[Stephan]

It was in a training run, I wasnt giving it my all. I'm still trying to figure out the right pace to do that. Tomorrow, I am running the same route but I will speed it up a bit, especially in the hilly parts just to see what that gives. I did 50:55 today and I was doing 10&1's. I am going to try without the walking breaks tomorrow. And then 15&1's the next day, just to figure things out. It's all good.


Thanks,

Stephan

[Jwolf]

Well, like Jacob said you're better off doing shorter runs at that pace (4:30/km), or sets of repeats, to get the pace in your legs and brain. If you've never run that pace, then trying to run the full 10K for the first time at that pace will be pretty tough. You're trying to do a lot at once, I think. I needed about 4 days to fully recover from a 10K PB at 5:12/km, but if I ran 6K at that pace (in training), I could run again the next day (at an easy pace).
Giving up the walk breaks alone won't make it faster.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[Jwolf]

Stephan-
Also remember that improvement comes partly from alternating hard and easy days. The easy (or rest) days allow your body to absorb the training of the hard run. If you try to keep going harder and harder each day, it's going to be very hard on your body, you probably won't improve as much, and you risk injury.

[Stephan]

I think you are absolutelly right. I have been improving steadily now just by running in my comfort zone and slowly adding distance to my weeks. It's just my nature to push too hard too fast. I know I have the skills and strenght in me, I just have to be patient and cultivate them carefully while building a solid foundation. I just wish I would of discovered the sport earlier, I can only imagine where I would be today if I started in my twenties or earlier. That being said, I am now focusing on where I am going in the future. Here's to steady improvements, focus, strenght and determination!!

Thanks,

Stephan