Sore heels

[erinmcd]

Dealing with sore heels right now. Some history- after a VFF run on the treadmill about 2 weeks ago, I had a sore achilles tendon after pushing it a bit hard so I rested for a few days. After Tuesday's run, my heels were quite sore, so I've rested since then. They are quite stiff and sore when I first get out of bed, but loosen up and feel fine after I get moving. Should I be giving them more time to heal, or can I get back to running with this sort of thing? ETA- how do you change a typo in the topic title?

[Tori]

If the achilles were tight earlier and the heels now hurt especially when you wake up, it does sound like maybe the beginnings of PF. I have dealt with that and if you let it go too long (ie running through it) you can really do a number on yourself. I would ice your heels, REALLY stretch your calves and massage the bottom of the foot with a golf ball and see how that goes. I would maybe not use the VFFs until the heels feel better and use a more cushioned shoe for now.

[AirForceRunner]

Exactly where on the heel does it hurt? Are we talking bottom of your foot heel, or backside of you foot heel, where the achilles tendon inserts.

If its the latter, be really careful with this. This is the point where the achilles inserts into the heel, and is the 'weak point' if you had to identify one. I'm battling the same thing right now, and have been off running for 3 months, heavy physio, with little to no success. I thought I could run through as I had in the past, but not this time.
Do they still swell (or have they at all)?

All I can say is ice the crap out of them, and get thee some topical Voltaren....its good stuff.

[erinmcd]

Exactly where on the heel does it hurt? Are we talking bottom of your foot heel, or backside of you foot heel, where the achilles tendon inserts.

If its the latter, be really careful with this. This is the point where the achilles inserts into the heel, and is the 'weak point' if you had to identify one. I'm battling the same thing right now, and have been off running for 3 months, heavy physio, with little to no success. I thought I could run through as I had in the past, but not this time.
Do they still swell (or have they at all)?

All I can say is ice the crap out of them, and get thee some topical Voltaren....its good stuff.

The pain is on the outside of the foot, just behind and below the ankle bone, not quite to the heel.
Still pretty stiff and sore when I first get out of bed, or if I've been sitting still for a couple of hours, but as soon as I get up and moving, all the pain is gone and I've got full mobility.
No swelling.

[Runtastic]

Hiya,

I am just new to the site and couldn't wait to talk with like-minded individuals in regard to running. Recently I too have been having problems with my heels. I am training for the Vancouver Marathon May 1st and really can't afford to be taking any time off as it is only 14 weeks away. I feel most pain in the morning or if I have been sitting for long periods, although they are tender throughout the day, even when walking.

I have been trying the known remedies for PF, golf ball rolling, towel scrunching and warm foot baths for chronic PF, so am hoping to find relief. I am quite worried that I am going to do some permanent damage to my feet but really don't want to stop training at least until the Marathon is over. I know this sounds crazy but I just need to finish this Marathon.

So I feel for you erinmcd as I am in the same situation.

[ultraslacker]

Hiya,

I am just new to the site and couldn't wait to talk with like-minded individuals in regard to running. Recently I too have been having problems with my heels. I am training for the Vancouver Marathon May 1st and really can't afford to be taking any time off as it is only 14 weeks away. I feel most pain in the morning or if I have been sitting for long periods, although they are tender throughout the day, even when walking.

I have been trying the known remedies for PF, golf ball rolling, towel scrunching and warm foot baths for chronic PF, so am hoping to find relief. I am quite worried that I am going to do some permanent damage to my feet but really don't want to stop training at least until the Marathon is over. I know this sounds crazy but I just need to finish this Marathon.

So I feel for you erinmcd as I am in the same situation.

do you *need* to finish the marathon, or do you *need* to retain the use of your feet for the rest of your life? ;)

If you're already fighting injury this far out from the race, take the time you need to heal. You will either get up and running again soon, or you won't. One race is NOT worth permanent damage, no matter how badly you think you want it. :)

Welcome to RM!

[Runtastic]

do you *need* to finish the marathon, or do you *need* to retain the use of your feet for the rest of your life?

If you're already fighting injury this far out from the race, take the time you need to heal. You will either get up and running again soon, or you won't. One race is NOT worth permanent damage, no matter how badly you think you want it.

I so know you are right ultraslacker. My head and heart are pulling in different directions, my head is telling me to pull back and rest but my heart is very loudly overpowering my better judgment to convince me to push through.

At the end of the day I want to keep running for years and not just painfully endure one marathon. So I will be giving this some careful thought!

Thanks

[ultraslacker]

The other thing to consider is what kind of experience you want to have at this marathon. Is it your first? Wouldn't you rather run a happy, healthy marathon and have a great experience, than to limp through the training, limp through the race, and feel terrible after? (followed by months and months of treatment for your feet.)

Ask r4l... she got injured while training for last year's Vancouver marathon. She decided not to run the race (tough decision, to be sure!) and instead healed up and ran Victoria in October, where she had an AWESOME race and surpassed her own expectations. :)

[ultraslacker]

ps: I'm not saying that you WILL be limping through the training and the race. It's quite possible that if you take care of it now, you can still train and run the race. I just think it's worth considering that it might not be the wisest thing to go into the race injured. :)

[Jwolf]

Runtastic-
First of all, welcome to the forum! It's always good to welcome another Vancouver-area runner. Too bad your first post has to be about an injury, though.

I struggled with a form of PF back in 2009 and it wasn't fun. I ended up missing the Vancouver marathon and most of the summer of running, and it took me another six months to build back. Although I had more of an acute inflammation, not from chronic overuse, many of the symptoms and issues were similar. I would recommend you see a physiotherapist or chiropractor that does soft-tissue injury work (i.e., ART) to get an accurate assessment of what the problem is. As it was said upthread, heel issues can either be PF or achilles-related, or often some combination (usually there are lots of muscles and connective tissues involved). Calf-stretching and hamstring stretching really helped me, as did the golf-ball rolling and wearing cushioned flip-flops or crocs in the house on the hard floors (especially in the morning if the pain is worse). A good therapist will be able to prescribe exercises and treatment AND give you the hands-on therapy that you can't do as easily yourself (and maybe assess whether something like a heel-lift in your shoe or orthotics could help). Some of the things you are trying to do might actually make the problem worse if you aren't doing them right or are overdoing them. So it's usually good to start with the help of someone who has seen lots of these problems. I can recommend a few good people if you need some names. I also have a bunch of leftover foam heel-lifts which really helped relieve the pain while walking-- you are welcome to have some of those if you think they will help.

My concern is that you are very early in the marathon training, so this has the potential to get a lot worse or debilitating depending on how bad it is. Sometimes things just loosen and get better as you go along if you're lucky-- but it's hard to say. You say you "only" have 14 weeks till the marathon, but the big miles are yet to come so it would be best to get a handle on it now.

[mcshame]

Erin, I have had alot of experience with PF. Mine was on the inside in the arch of the foot. Yours doesn't sound the same. But the fact that you feel it in the morning or at rest for a period of time, it does sound like PF.

I've tried alot of things, with varying levels of little success until I got rid of it and got orthodics.

You used those Gorrila shoes and then had the problem? I will guess that your calves are very tight. Get a deep tissue massage for your legs, used them to beat the hell out of your calves and work around the Achilles and feet. A good loosening of the calve and it could do the trick. I do this monthly and it's amazing the tension that builds up in them.

Hope it helps.

[mcshame]

Hiya,

I am just new to the site and couldn't wait to talk with like-minded individuals in regard to running. Recently I too have been having problems with my heels. I am training for the Vancouver Marathon May 1st and really can't afford to be taking any time off as it is only 14 weeks away. I feel most pain in the morning or if I have been sitting for long periods, although they are tender throughout the day, even when walking.

I have been trying the known remedies for PF, golf ball rolling, towel scrunching and warm foot baths for chronic PF, so am hoping to find relief. I am quite worried that I am going to do some permanent damage to my feet but really don't want to stop training at least until the Marathon is over. I know this sounds crazy but I just need to finish this Marathon.

So I feel for you erinmcd as I am in the same situation.

I have run thru PF when I was more than 1/2 way thru my marathon training while getting treatment. Starting training with PF sounds like a tough road. Where in the foot do you feel it?

[erinmcd]

I'm definitley on the mend, but not quite there yet. I took about 2 weeks off completely, then about 3 weeks of very easy and short runs. I'm now just dealing with minimal pain, and it's getting less every day.
I'm icing like crazy- in the morning before heading to work, and then several times in the evening. Also using a roller on my calves every day, and several times through the day giving them a good rub by hand.

Runtastic- I know where you're coming from. I'm also training for the Vancouver Marathon, and it was pretty hard to see the start date for my training program come and go while I was sidelined, but I figure I'd much rather take the time to heal now than try push through it and end up with a long term injury. Listen to your body and don't push your luck.

[Tori]

I'm definitley on the mend, but not quite there yet. I took about 2 weeks off completely, then about 3 weeks of very easy and short runs. I'm now just dealing with minimal pain, and it's getting less every day.
I'm icing like crazy- in the morning before heading to work, and then several times in the evening. Also using a roller on my calves every day, and several times through the day giving them a good rub by hand.

Runtastic- I know where you're coming from. I'm also training for the Vancouver Marathon, and it was pretty hard to see the start date for my training program come and go while I was sidelined, but I figure I'd much rather take the time to heal now than try push through it and end up with a long term injury. Listen to your body and don't push your luck.

Have you tried any taping too? I found the extra support felt really good.

[erinmcd]

I'm definitley on the mend, but not quite there yet. I took about 2 weeks off completely, then about 3 weeks of very easy and short runs. I'm now just dealing with minimal pain, and it's getting less every day.
I'm icing like crazy- in the morning before heading to work, and then several times in the evening. Also using a roller on my calves every day, and several times through the day giving them a good rub by hand.

Runtastic- I know where you're coming from. I'm also training for the Vancouver Marathon, and it was pretty hard to see the start date for my training program come and go while I was sidelined, but I figure I'd much rather take the time to heal now than try push through it and end up with a long term injury. Listen to your body and don't push your luck.

Have you tried any taping too? I found the extra support felt really good.

That's a good idea- I noticed a difference when wearing my hiking boots.
I'm thinking maybe from under the ankle bone, around the back of the heel, to under the other ankle bone. How did you tape?

[PinkLady]

Try low-dye taping:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_SEfgm6uZU

I used it for arch support when I had my tendonitis issues, and I know Jen (Jwolf) used it for her PF. The quality of tape really matters though - get Leukotape if you can find it, it's what they use in the video. I found a medical supply place in town, but before that I bought it from my physio place. The good quality stuff lasts longer than the cheap white stuff (though if you can't find Leukotape you can still do the technique with cheaper stuff). Oh, and you can use much less tape with Leukotape - I used 4 strips total, about 10" each strip - one for the anchor strip (top of foot around back of ankle to other side of foot) and 3 strips under the arch. You can totally skip the top anchor strip at the end since Leukotape is very sticky and won't peel off like some cheaper tapes.

[Tori]

I have done 2 types of taping techniques. This is my favorite and really easy. It is just 1 piece of tape for support.

1. Flex foot
2. Line up tape in the middle of the arch just under the tarsals
3. Attach tape
4. Pull tape tightly to the heel and then follow up the achilles about half way up your calf. (When you stand it is an L shape)
5. Done (you can put an anchor strap around either end of the tape to security if you feel like it.

[HCcD]

Have you determined what was the actual cause / catalyst ? VFF ?? or, another sort of training error, possibly ?? Otherwise, it may continue and/or come back to haunt you, down the road, once you have recovered from this current issue ...

I assume that, you would normally be wearing some sort of neutral/cushioning shoe, if you are running around in VFF ...

[Jwolf]

For some reason I always forget about the low-dye taping. It helped me a lot during my recovery from the PF. However, I'm always reluctant to recommend it to someone on-line without an assessment from a therapist because you can do it wrong and it can mess things up more if you do. Once my PT did it a few times I could do it on my own. The youtube video that PinkLady linked to up there does a good job at explaining it too, although I did it in a simpler way.

Some people may try to tell you that taping is just a crutch and should be avoided. I disagree-- for me it really helped to give my foot the support it needed while it was healing.

[PinkLady]

For some reason I always forget about the low-dye taping. It helped me a lot during my recovery from the PF. However, I'm always reluctant to recommend it to someone on-line without an assessment from a therapist because you can do it wrong and it can mess things up more if you do. Once my PT did it a few times I could do it on my own. The youtube video that PinkLady linked to up there does a good job at explaining it too.

Some people may try to tell you that taping is just a crutch and should be avoided. I disagree-- for me it really helped to give my foot the support it needed while it was healing.

Good point, Jen. You're absolutely right, these things should be diagnosed and treated by a medical professional before you try taping techniques. One really shouldn't self-diagnose.

I agree with Andy too. Taping is no substitute for treatment and fixing the root of the problem, but it's useful for support and aid while you're fixing the problem. It's easy to be tempted to rely on tape to 'strap things in' in order to run, but that won't help things any and could potentially do further injury. I found taping very helpful as a support while healing, alongside proper treatments (chiro & ART), rehab exercises, and sufficient rest. I mean, we are talking about feet here - even if you didn't run, you still have to stand and walk. The tape, if not overly relied on AS a crutch, prevents further injury and pain from unavoidable daily activity.

[erinmcd]

Have you determined what was the actual cause / catalyst ? VFF ?? or, another sort of training error, possibly ?? Otherwise, it may continue and/or come back to haunt you, down the road, once you have recovered from this current issue ...

I assume that, you would normally be wearing some sort of neutral/cushioning shoe, if you are running around in VFF ...

Pretty sure I narrowed down the cause to when I was doing a tempo run on treadmill in VFFs- had very sore calves for a week after, and the sore heals started after that.
I normally run in Newton Gravitys with no issues. Only wear VFFs about one run a week.
I've got a Dr appt coming up, but my guess is (from previous experience with him) is that he'll tell me that if running caused it, to quit running. All I'm hoping for out of this Dr appt is to get a referral to a massage therapist.

[HCcD]

Have you determined what was the actual cause / catalyst ? VFF ?? or, another sort of training error, possibly ?? Otherwise, it may continue and/or come back to haunt you, down the road, once you have recovered from this current issue ...

I assume that, you would normally be wearing some sort of neutral/cushioning shoe, if you are running around in VFF ...

Pretty sure I narrowed down the cause to when I was doing a tempo run on treadmill in VFFs- had very sore calves for a week after, and the sore heals started after that.
I normally run in Newton Gravitys with no issues. Only wear VFFs about one run a week.
I've got a Dr appt coming up, but my guess is (from previous experience with him) is that he'll tell me that if running caused it, to quit running. All I'm hoping for out of this Dr appt is to get a referral to a massage therapist.

Or, just slow down like the rest of us mere mortals, and stopping running so darn fast ...

[mcshame]

Have you determined what was the actual cause / catalyst ? VFF ?? or, another sort of training error, possibly ?? Otherwise, it may continue and/or come back to haunt you, down the road, once you have recovered from this current issue ...

I assume that, you would normally be wearing some sort of neutral/cushioning shoe, if you are running around in VFF ...

Pretty sure I narrowed down the cause to when I was doing a tempo run on treadmill in VFFs- had very sore calves for a week after, and the sore heals started after that.
I normally run in Newton Gravitys with no issues. Only wear VFFs about one run a week.
I've got a Dr appt coming up, but my guess is (from previous experience with him) is that he'll tell me that if running caused it, to quit running. All I'm hoping for out of this Dr appt is to get a referral to a massage therapist.

What coverage do you have? I'm not covered for massage but I am for Naturopath, and some have multiple licenses they can give one

[PinkLady]

I've got a Dr appt coming up, but my guess is (from previous experience with him) is that he'll tell me that if running caused it, to quit running. All I'm hoping for out of this Dr appt is to get a referral to a massage therapist.

Ugh, useless! My pet peeve too.

Do what I do....I totally don't expect to get running advice (or parenting advice) from my GP. I go to her once a year and ask her to write me a bunch of referrals for RMT and physio (my insurance doesn't require referrals for chiro's). Then I do my own research and find myself a good sports-oriented RMT, chiro, physio. Thanks to RM, so far I have found a great go-to physio and chiro that knows runners, which is absolutely critical.

[erinmcd]

Have you determined what was the actual cause / catalyst ? VFF ?? or, another sort of training error, possibly ?? Otherwise, it may continue and/or come back to haunt you, down the road, once you have recovered from this current issue ...

I assume that, you would normally be wearing some sort of neutral/cushioning shoe, if you are running around in VFF ...

Pretty sure I narrowed down the cause to when I was doing a tempo run on treadmill in VFFs- had very sore calves for a week after, and the sore heals started after that.
I normally run in Newton Gravitys with no issues. Only wear VFFs about one run a week.
I've got a Dr appt coming up, but my guess is (from previous experience with him) is that he'll tell me that if running caused it, to quit running. All I'm hoping for out of this Dr appt is to get a referral to a massage therapist.

What coverage do you have? I'm not covered for massage but I am for Naturopath, and some have multiple licenses they can give one

I've got RMT, Chiro, Naturopath, Physio coverage. For RMT & Physio I need a referral. I hate going to my Dr- it takes forever to get through to the office to make the appt, and then forever to get in to see him.